2008 U.S. Presidential Election - Primaries

[Roy Karrde]

Dont wanna go off topic, but Chaney had a great line today.

"Alot of Americans do not like the fighting ( In Iraq )" - Reporter
"* Shrugs * So?" - Chaney

As much as people think he is evil, you gotta love a Vice President that doesn't give a flying fuck about what people think about him. You know when you ask him a question, you are going to get a straight forward answer.

[Clark]

i think chaney should take obama out for a little peptalk while hunting.

[Heald]

Dont wanna go off topic, but Chaney had a great line today.

"Alot of Americans do not like the fighting ( In Iraq )" - Reporter
"* Shrugs * So?" - Chaney

As much as people think he is evil, you gotta love a Vice President that doesn't give a flying fuck about what people think about him. You know when you ask him a question, you are going to get a straight forward answer.

Yeah, I'm sure all the Yanks, Brits, Ozzies, Polish and whoever else is in Iraq who have lost friends or relatives in the conflict will love him for his flippant attitude to needlessly throwing away thousands of young lives.

And 62,040,610 of you morons voted for this prick to be your VP. Jeez.

[Roy Karrde]

Yeah, I'm sure all the Yanks, Brits, Ozzies, Polish and whoever else is in Iraq who have lost friends or relatives in the conflict will love him for his flippant attitude to needlessly throwing away thousands of young lives.

The attitude isnt about throwing away lives, the question was about the war protestors and his responce was pretty much about how he feels about them

And 62,040,610 of you morons voted for this prick to be your VP. Jeez.

Considering the alternative. I would rather have a politician that gives a straight forward answer that does not care about how people feel about him or getting re elected. Than John Edwards.

[Katie]

It's so wonderful to live in a country where you elect people to represent the public opinion and then get a "So?" in response to the public disagreeing with what you're doing. If Obama did the same thing you'd be all over him for it.


vvvv you know what I mean

[firepokemon]

People don't vote for Vice Presidents they never have and they never will. VPs don't have much power nor have they ever had much power. Now Cheney would be an exception to that, but thats what happens.

[Roy Karrde]

It's so wonderful to live in a country where you elect people to represent the public opinion and then get a "So?" in response to the public disagreeing with what you're doing. If Obama did the same thing you'd be all over him for it.

Well for one Chaney wasn't elected, Bush was elected, Chaney was chosen. Which is why you get those kinds of reactions out of him, becuase he doesn't give a damn. He doesn't want to be a politician, his ass isnt on the line. So you are going to get honest opinions out of him, he is going to tell you how he really feels. Would you rather have a leader tell you outright how he feels, or one that does a song and dance? Second, a leader is supposed to lead, not bow to Public Opinion. Those that disagree with him can disagree all they want. But at the end of the day we elect a President to lead the nation, which is why they get daily national security reports, and not the public.

Also Obama and his wife has said things a hell of a lot worse than "So".

[Katie]

It's a buy one get one deal, but whatever.
I'd rather have someone to explain or defend what the public hates (or, god forbid, listen to them). He sounds like a child with that response, and when he doesn't give a flying fuck about people dying it's quite worrying.
Leaders who lose followers because they don't care about them don't stay leaders long. Oh well, he'll be out soon and it'll be tough for whoever wins the election to beat his pricktastic ways, so I guess that's a bright side.

[Roy Karrde]

I'd rather have someone to explain or defend what the public hates (or, god forbid, listen to them).

The public already knows the reasons for staying in Iraq. Marching around the street isnt going to change his mind. So why should he explain or defend something that has already been explained and defended for a long time.

He sounds like a child with that response, and when he doesn't give a flying fuck about people dying it's quite worrying.

Woah he never said he didn't care about people dying, you are putting words in his mouth. He said he didn't care about the protestors. Some times leaders have to stand on what they know is right and stick to it.

Leaders who lose followers because they don't care about them don't stay leaders long.

And you know what Leaders who govern by polls are called? Bill Clinton Officials ( Thank God Hillary has shown some personal judgement ). The Office of the President was designed to have a man in it that could make decisions for the country based on his own judgement. Not what his followers or any one else says. If we have a President that governs by the polls, that governs by his followers, then nothing gets done, becuase the President puts his poll numbers over the wellfare of the country.

[Katie]

I'm not playing the piece by piece quote game with you, but I still stand by what I said. I guess we have different ideas about who the president should listen to and that's where this conversation would eventually stop so I'll save us the trouble.

[Roy Karrde]

That sounds fair enough! But to keep the topic going, does anyone believe Obama has a chance in Pennsylvania after his racist remark and racist pastor? Pennsylvania seems to be a pretty white state that wouldn't really seem to enjoy voting for some one like that.

[Leon-IH]

That sounds fair enough! But to keep the topic going, does anyone believe Obama has a chance in Pennsylvania after his racist remark and racist pastor? Pennsylvania seems to be a pretty white state that wouldn't really seem to enjoy voting for some one like that.

Well even over here that'd kill any chance he'd have, and I'd like to think we're in general a bit less inclined to pass judgment over one airy remark.

[mr_pikachu]

Aw man, how is it that when the election finally explodes with controversy, I manage to not have a net connection?

Okay. By now we've all heard Wright's remarks; anyone who hasn't can pull a simple net search. And Obama's losing voters left and right as a result. But the big issue for Democrats is that he still pretty much has the nomination locked up. If I remember correctly, Hillary could win every remaining state by a 60-40 margin and she still couldn't catch Obama.

...There's a catch, of course. That would leave the nomination in the hands of the superdelegates, who could swing it to Clinton if they so chose. Should the primary go to convention with Obama still leading in popular vote delegates, it would present a no-win situation for the DNC. Give Obama the nod and, as Roy said, you've already lost 1 in 5 Democrats. Forget about moderate support. But hand the race to Clinton and there may well be riots. This has probably been the most intense primary in history; to tear it away from the voters and from the first seriously contending black candidate in years could make the party turn on itself.

This is the sort of race that will be studied by political scholars for decades to come. Crazy stuff.

[Kirby]

fuck clinton go obama

[mr_pikachu]

Obama wins most Texas delegates

Obama's lead grows ever larger, it seems. With a swing of nine delegates, Obama has won five more Texas delegates than Clinton and currently leads her 1,631 to 1,501. With 2,024 necessary for victory, Obama is now within 400 of the nomination.

Can Clinton turn the tide? Or will Obama square off against McCain for the presidency?

[firepokemon]

Bah won't write anything big. But Clinton must win Pennsylvania and it must be huge like 15% ahead and I would think 20% is better. Because the next one after Philadelphia is North Carolina which suits Obama much better and some polls have him with a huge lead. Kentucky is good for Clinton but I don't think it awards many delegates. Even with a huge win, its hard not to bet on Obama. The question is even if Obama does get the nomination, how much damage has he received going into the Presidental campaign. And is Clinton now looking at 2012, hoping Obama loses the race for President.

Now current head to heads show McCain typically leading both Clinton and Obama but I don't think you can count on those type of polls simply because McCain is confirmed and the others aren't. The real question is, can Obama win one of the big states such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida and Michigan or will he try the other way and grab a few south states that don't reward much electoral points (I am confused slightly on this point)but where he could pickup enough? On the other hand can Clinton do classic Democratic strategy and look at picking up Ohio and Texas? Anyway to be honest I haven't really though about how they should strategise for the Presidential campaign. But the President thread at BMG reminded me of it.

[mr_pikachu]

See, this is why I don't like the primaries happening over a long period of time. It's hard to say that Obama looks like the stronger candidate right now, as a massive hole has been punched in his image, and yet he's still all but guaranteed the nomination. It makes the whole process look stupid, and the weaker candidate reaches the next stage.

...The obvious response is that if the primaries had all been conducted earlier the same thing may have happened. But at least we wouldn't be asking these questions. Ignorance is bliss!

[Toxicity]

Ron Paul is pulling a 'Still Alive' starting in Pennsylvania

I don't know if this is expecting to run alongside McCain, or if enough people could pull together and vote to get him much more notice.

[mr_pikachu]

Penn out as Clinton senior strategist

If this keeps up much longer, the interns are going to be running the Clinton campaign.

[Roy Karrde]

If this keeps up much longer, the interns are going to be running the Clinton campaign.

How will they be able to with them already busy with Bill?

Okay I just had to make a intern joke, anyone got any others?

[Roy Karrde]

Not trying to double post but... Obama opened his big fat mouth again, this time targeting Small Town America.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...enophobia.html

So apparently he thinks whites are racists, and people that live in small towns as anti immigrant, anti trade, gun toting, bible thumping hethans!

I believe this is going to be the first time a Presidential Cannidate has effectively alianated a entire portion of America! Good luck Democrats if you choose this guy, the Republicans really need another 49 state victory like they one they got with Reagan.

[Leon-IH]

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp200...aps/Apr11.html

And despite that, he is *this* close right now.

That said, slightly old polling.

[Blademaster]

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Oh, no he di-in't...! Redneck America got BURNED!!!!!!!!!

[Heald]

God I can imagine it now...

"Derp derp that negro say what?! Maw! Git my shawt-gun! Wir gunna has oursells a good-ol' fashunned lynching, jist like that Emmett Till kid we killed back in 55! Yeehaw!"

Except imagine it multiplied by about 62,040,610 times, and you pretty much have the white redneck American vote right there.

[Roy Karrde]

God I can imagine it now...

"Derp derp that negro say what?! Maw! Git my shawt-gan! Wir gunna has oursells a good-ol' fashunned lynching, jist like that Emmett Till kid we killed back in 55! Yeehaw!"

Except imagine it multiplied by about 62,040,610 times, and you pretty much have the white redneck American vote right there.

Well for one, Obama does like to compare himself to JFK, even to driving the same route JFK did when he visited Dallas.

two... isn't the goal of a Presidential Cannidate to...well... try to gain votes? XD

[Heald]

True, which is a damned shame because you have a candidate who is telling the voters what they need to hear instead of what they want to hear, and he will probably get crucified for it by some right-wing pundit who will take it completely out of context.

[Roy Karrde]

True, which is a damned shame because you have a candidate who is telling the voters what they need to hear instead of what they want to hear, and he will probably get crucified for it by some right-wing pundit who will take it completely out of context.

I think it is pretty hard for anyone to take it out of context. He has done a pretty good job to paint himself as a racist. But hey since Obama is telling voters what they need to hear, I guess I will just sit back and wait till he starts talking about Inner City Blacks and how they all comit crime, beat their wives, and run in gangs!

[Heald]

I think it is pretty hard for anyone to take it out of context. He has done a pretty good job to paint himself as a racist. But hey since Obama is telling voters what they need to hear, I guess I will just sit back and wait till he starts talking about Inner City Blacks and how they all comit crime, beat their wives, and run in gangs!

True, except criminals can't vote, so there'd be no point telling them anyway

Also, I've checked his quote over and over again but I can't see any mention of white people.

[Roy Karrde]

True, except criminals can't vote, so there'd be no point telling them anyway

Holy shit, in my entire debating career I have never gotten my ass kicked that easily ;.;

Oh and also the spin has begun!

Hillary: "Pennsylvania doesn't need a president who looks down on them, they need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, your families."

McCain: "It shows an elitism and condescension toward hard-working Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking, it is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."

Obama's Response to McCain: "Out of touch? Out of touch? I mean, John McCain -- it took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it."

Clinton's Response to Obama: "Instead of apologizing for offending small town America, Senator Obama chose to repeat and embrace the comments he made earlier this week"

McCain's Response to Obama: "He, arrogantly tried to spin his way out of his outrageous San Francisco remarks."

[Katie]

people that live in small towns as anti immigrant, anti trade, gun toting, bible thumping hethans!

Lol, are you saying he's wrong? Come visit me in College Station, home of many many many many kids coming from tiny towns. Stereotypes suck and all, but this one is true. At least in Texas small towns. I'd imagine it's the same elsewhere.

Here's a facebook "bumper sticker" thing on the profile of my friend from tiny Helotes TX

Not the same "list", but it's implied.

[Roy Karrde]

Lol, are you saying he's wrong? Come visit me in College Station, home of many many many many kids coming from tiny towns. Stereotypes suck and all, but this one is true. At least in Texas small towns. I'd imagine it's the same elsewhere.

Well see the thing is, even if it is true, you tend not to go around insulting people while running for President. It just seems kind of counter productive...

[Katie]

Well see the thing is, even if it is true, you tend not to go around insulting people while running for President. It just seems kind of counter productive...

Oh god now the gun toting bible thumping rednecks won't vote for Obama, he's lost all of his support! Oh wait.

[Roy Karrde]

Oh god now the gun toting bible thumping rednecks won't vote for Obama, he's lost all of his support! Oh wait.

Well see the thing is those gun toting bible thumping rednecks are going to be voting in the Democrat Primary in Pennsylvania in just a few weeks. Where he will need alot of small town support if he plans to win the state, where he has been gaining these last few weeks. Same with Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, hell looking at the list almost every single state left in the Democrat Primary is one with large amounts of small town populations.

[firepokemon]

Hmm Obama does seem to have a problem with working class people that are not young or black. Part of it is clearly racist but there does seem to be something about almost like he looks down on these type of people. That can't be a good thing considering many of them are bread and butter democrats. On the other hand he gets huge liberal votes and higher income votes. Which, I think always says something about that candidate. Liberal people are extremely selfish even though they pretend to be otherwise and rich lefties are strange beings and practically pathetic.

But clearly I'm bias against Obama.

[Roy Karrde]

Did everyone watch the debate on ABC last night? It pretty much was a hammering of Obama, who did a really sucky job on defensive. The media has really given this guy softballs for a hard time that he looked really unprepared. And FINALLY his connection with a actual terrorist comes out in the media.

[Master Rudy]

Well on the other side of things I think the Hilderbeast has shown she's got some issues:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24246275

Don't get me wrong....I and many others feel that Iran is going to be the world's nexy big problem. However flat out saying you'll nuke them if they nuke Israel is kinda like saying "Nuke us first so we can't fight back!"

I've said it before and I'll say it again....I fear for this country if that psycho bitch gets in the White House.

[Roy Karrde]

Well on the other side of things I think the Hilderbeast has shown she's got some issues:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24246275

Don't get me wrong....I and many others feel that Iran is going to be the world's nexy big problem. However flat out saying you'll nuke them if they nuke Israel is kinda like saying "Nuke us first so we can't fight back!"

I've said it before and I'll say it again....I fear for this country if that psycho bitch gets in the White House.

Well to be fair I think any Presidential Cannidate would attack Iran if they were to destroy Isreal. Especially since Isreal is one of our closest allies in the world. We may not nuke Iran, but when we're done with it, you wont really be able to tell the difference.

[Master Rudy]

Well to be fair I think any Presidential Cannidate would attack Iran if they were to destroy Isreal. Especially since Isreal is one of our closest allies in the world. We may not nuke Iran, but when we're done with it, you wont really be able to tell the difference.

Not saying I disagree with that comment Roy. I don't think it's any secret that we'd rush to Isreal's aid. What I do disagree with however is her choice to flat out say "Yeah I'ma nuke you!" I feel that admiting you'd be willing to use the US's nuclear weapons is like painting an even bigger target on yourself.

[firepokemon]

Leave poor Hilary alone

In all seriousness she can't win the nominee, it will throw up too much madness that will destroy the democrat party for years. The only problem with Obama has been his inability to win big states. Pennsylvania should go to Clinton albeit by a much smaller margin. Obama does do excellent in smaller states and North Carolina looks like it could be huge for him. But his inability to win any big state outside Illinois should be a worry.

I also wouldn't be that concerned with Clinton and Iran, yeah maybe shes saying crap. But you know shes going to have an experience foreign relations/security team with her. And personally I'd trust her with such matters over Obama any day.

[Master Rudy]

Yeah experience matters and quite frankly I'm not cool with letting Obama get his feet wet with our highest elected office. On the other hand Hill's got the "experience" but we all know she's a psycho who only stuck with Bill for the sole purpose of eventually getting a crack at the White House. In all honesty if the two of them are the best the Dems can offer then perhaps they should start planning for 2012.....