Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

[Heald]

So our business secretary says that the impending default in the US is entirely down to a few 'right-wing nutters'

LINK

Is he right? I don't really care what's going on in the USA, all I know is Vince Cable is a fucking idiot and if he's wrong it would help further justify my disposition to him.

[Roy Karrde]

So our business secretary says that the impending default in the US is entirely down to a few 'right-wing nutters'

LINK

Is he right? I don't really care what's going on in the USA, all I know is Vince Cable is a fucking idiot and if he's wrong it would help further justify my disposition to him.

I wouldn't say right wing nutters, I would say it was the right wing up until last weekend, and then this happened...

But the GOP bill to cut spending and raise the debt ceiling, which would avert the coming default crisis, would also require at least one more debt increase before the 2012 election, and the president, working hard for re-election, does not want to deal with the issue again before November 2012. After consulting with Obama Sunday evening, Reid's willingness to work with the GOP disappeared. (The White House has all along blamed Republicans for blowing up the talks.)

"I think Reid wants to get this done," says the senior Republican. "The problem is, the White House is so far out on a limb on vetoing anything that doesn't get Obama through the 2012 election that it's now kind of personal." For Reid to keep working with the GOP would be a slap at the president and leader of the Democratic party -- a virtually impossible scenario for the Majority Leader.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...ama-nixed-plan

And MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnald.

The Boehner news conference was fascinating. He didn’t want to - it seemed at the beginning he didn’t want to specify a number. He said we agreed to a number on revenues, which I found shocking enough, and then later he said it was $800 billion in revenue increases that he and Eric Cantor agreed to. They then claimed the President, having reached that agreement with them, then asked for a bigger revenue increase, which they absolutely couldn’t do. That would look like, if that’s the way it played out, that would look like, in the end, the President making sure they didn’t get a deal.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wi...#ixzz1T8BqpmNw

You have no idea how frustrating it is, that we have a deal in our grasp, a bi partisan deal that includes tax increases and spending cuts.... and Obama has killed it

[ChobiChibi]

So our business secretary says that the impending default in the US is entirely down to a few 'right-wing nutters'

LINK

Oh Heald, I saw this on the BBC a couple of nights ago, cracked me up and reminded me of this topic lol.

Anyways, about the CNN stuff. I don't see how you can trust media polls 100%, after what happened over here with The News of the World. They just print what people want to see and such...

Not sure where I'm going with this. Will go crawl back into my hole now.

[Roy Karrde]

\
Anyways, about the CNN stuff. I don't see how you can trust media polls 100%, after what happened over here with The News of the World. They just print what people want to see and such...

If they print stuff the public wants to see, why have they refused to acknowledge the results then?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-ha...ap-and-balance

And why did a Republican Representative have to inform the host about their own poll?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-ha...n-poll-results

[woz]

"exposing and combating liberal media bias" lol

are any of your sources not right-wing pseudo-conspiracy blogs or thinktanks

[Roy Karrde]

"exposing and combating liberal media bias" lol

are any of your sources not right-wing pseudo-conspiracy blogs or thinktanks

All my sources for MSNBC and CNN are only quotes from programs and clips. Newsbusters is the easiest way to provide the quotes and clips.

[woz]

quotes they cherry-pick to support their agenda while others that don't are ignored. thank god they're here to expose this bias

[Roy Karrde]

quotes they cherry-pick to support their agenda while others that don't are ignored. thank god they're here to expose this bias

Feel free to point out which of the articles is incorrect and has ignored things in those programs that would counter them. Really I am curious to find out where they have been cherry picked for ideological reasons. But you better have proof to back up the ones you point out.

[Heald]

I must admit the first comment on one of those articles made me laugh.

"No Matter how CNN and the other MSM present their one sided Leftist views, no one is watching.

What really matters is that FOX presents a balanced view."

[Dark Sage]

Roy, I gotta ask...

Do any of these sources of yours also include a poll that says that the majority of those polled what the President impeached?

I'm really starting to think that you're only focusing on the sources that reflect your personal opinions.

Incidentally, Senate Majority Leader Reid just proposed a plan that should have made everyone happy. But the Tea Party is threatening to kill it even before it's voted on. Ironically, Boehmer proposed a plan that everyone could agree on, but it was struck down by, you guessed it, the Tea Party.

I'd like to go on the record by saying I have never once voted for any of these Tea Party numbskulls. I knew that Carl Paladino would never win the governor's race in New York, but I voted in that election simply so I could vote against him.

[woz]

Really I am curious to find out where they have been cherry picked for ideological reasons.

yes it's almost like a right-wing funded media-conspiracy blog wouldn't cherry pick quotes to support their agenda and not report on anything that doesn't.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, I gotta ask...

Do any of these sources of yours also include a poll that says that the majority of those polled what the President impeached?

I'm really starting to think that you're only focusing on the sources that reflect your personal opinions.

I don't see how such a poll would have anything to do with the information I have posted. The only thing that it would be relevent is the CNN poll and I have not seen it on the CNN poll. And obviously I am going to post sources to back up my point. It would be quite stupid of me to post sources that disagree with the point I am trying to make.

Incidentally, Senate Majority Leader Reid just proposed a plan that should have made everyone happy. But the Tea Party is threatening to kill it even before it's voted on. Ironically, Boehmer proposed a plan that everyone could agree on, but it was struck down by, you guessed it, the Tea Party.

The Reid plan is the hastily put together plan that happened after the White House forced Reid out of the bi partisan plan that is currently the Boehmer plan. The problem with the Reid plan is that half of his cuts come from the false assumption that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are already over. That alone dwindles his cuts significantly.

yes it's almost like a right-wing funded media-conspiracy blog wouldn't cherry pick quotes to support their agenda and not report on anything that doesn't.

So you don't have any specific proof on these clips. kthxbye.

[woz]

laffo. the "clip" posted is 38 seconds long. where's the full interview? it's almost like they've cherry picked those 38 seconds because it supports their MEDIA ARE ALL LEFTIES agenda. try harder.

[Roy Karrde]

laffo. the "clip" posted is 38 seconds long. where's the full interview? it's almost like they've cherry picked those 38 seconds because it supports their MEDIA ARE ALL LEFTIES agenda. try harder.

Which is why I asked for you to provide proof that it is cherry picked, and not condensed for time. As I said it is easier to grab stuff off newsbusters than searching for a clip and going through 20 minutes of it to find the point I am looking for. If you have proof that it is actually cherry picked, ala you have the full interview and can show where in the interview disagrees with what they are saying. Feel free to post it. In other words: Put up or shut up.

[woz]

the fact you're floundering around claiming that 38 seconds of a ~20m interview isn't cherry-picked but "condensed for time" (lol) tells everyone all they need to know about your stance on this subject.

[ChobiChibi]

Well obviously it's cherry picked, an interview doesn't last 38 seconds, does it? It's like someone being quoted out of context. For example:

Roy Karrde (00:53:52): "Oh my God... I'm Gay"

I cherry picked that to make you look like you're saying that you're gay. Funny how that works, innit?

[Roy Karrde]

Well obviously it's cherry picked, an interview doesn't last 38 seconds, does it? It's like someone being quoted out of context. For example:



I cherry picked that to make you look like you're saying that you're gay. Funny how that works, innit?

You assume that there is actually something in that interview that actually contradicted their point, I am not saying there isn't, I am saying to prove it. Assuming something is there, and something actually being there, are two vastly different things.

the fact you're floundering around claiming that 38 seconds of a ~20m interview isn't cherry-picked but "condensed for time" (lol) tells everyone all they need to know about your stance on this subject.

So you have no actual proof, no clips to prove your point, nothing. Just like before arguing with you gets to a point where it is just pathetically sad. So until you actually provide actual physical proof for your argument there is no need to continue it.

[ChobiChibi]

Hey, here's the thing, YOU prove it. YOU find the other 20 minutes worth of interview if you're so sure that that quote isn't cherry picked.

[Roy Karrde]

Hey, here's the thing, YOU prove it. YOU find the other 20 minutes worth of interview if you're so sure that that quote isn't cherry picked.

I am not the one making the accusation, the burden of proof is on those making it, not me.

[woz]

you've literally quoted newsbusters.org with a 38s clip (with 10s of adverts) that they've used to beat the drum about their agenda. now you've claimed that they haven't cherry-picked a quote to support their agenda, provided a laughable explanation that it's just "condensed for time" and provided no link to the full interview you're referring to which should be your responsibility since it was you originally who posted a clip from it. that's sad.

you've also provided no "proof" of your own, you just paste crackpot articles from right-wing media-conspiracy blogs that are hardly fair or balanced either.

and you've also claimed it's not cherry-picked either. it's you who pasted the article, it's you who claims the clip isn't cherry-picked, you haven't even watched the full interview yourself which is, again, laughable. you prove it.

[Roy Karrde]

you've literally quoted newsbusters.org with a 38s clip (with 10s of adverts) that they've used to beat the drum about their agenda. now you've claimed that they haven't cherry-picked a quote to support their agenda, provided a laughable explanation that it's just "condensed for time" and provided no link to the full interview you're referring to which should be your responsibility since it was you originally who posted a clip from it. that's sad.

you've also provided no "proof" of your own, you just paste crackpot articles from right-wing media-conspiracy blogs that are hardly fair or balanced either.

and you've also claimed it's not cherry-picked either. it's you who pasted the article, it's you who claims the clip isn't cherry-picked, you haven't even watched the full interview yourself which is, again, laughable. you prove it.

You are the one who made the accusation it is Cherry Picked so again the onus is on you to prove it. And really from the looks of the article it is compressed for time, Representative Tom Graves confronts the CNN host with the facts of their poll, the CNN host dodges and continues on. Do you expect them to post the entire interview word for word when their focus is on specific parts? So far you make a claim, and have yet to back it up.

Then again it still has nothing to do with my original point in that CNN has refused to report on the poll, which the clip clearly shows as the host dodges it. Thus the whole debate as to if the clip is cherry picked or not is futile since the clip itself shows the host dodging it not once or twice.

Then again bringing up that CNN did the poll for any specific reason other than just doing a poll is idiocy as well and does not change the results.

[woz]

a 30s clip of a quote from an interview that is probably vastly longer than that is cherry-picked. sorry you aren't sensible enough to acknowledge that, having not watched the full interview yourself. you're failing to back up your claims and taking the rantings of a right-wing media-conspiracy blog as gospel.

cnn clearly did report on the poll btw. they reported that the majority of answers to the questions did not support the republican stance. tom graves does what any politician would and latch onto one aspect of the poll. he goes on ignoring the other polled questions and answers because it's not favourable. what did you expect cnn to say? "congrats mr graves the poll suggests the republicans aren't gaining favour on the majority of the questions asked, but this one question vindicates you all along!" don't be daft.

[Roy Karrde]

a 30s clip of a quote from an interview that is probably vastly longer than that is cherry-picked. sorry you aren't sensible enough to acknowledge that, having not watched the full interview yourself. you're failing to back up your claims and taking the rantings of a right-wing media-conspiracy blog as gospel.

cnn clearly did report on the poll btw. they reported that the majority of answers to the questions did not support the republican stance. tom graves does what any politician would and latch onto one aspect of the poll. he goes on ignoring the other polled questions and answers because it's not favourable. what did you expect cnn to say? "congrats mr graves the poll suggests the republicans aren't gaining favour on the majority of the questions asked, but this one question vindicates you all along!" don't be daft.

Yet my point wasn't that CNN was willing to acknowledge all the poll questions, my point was that they have ignored that specific one. As the argument was that CNN fixed, changed, messed with that question to get the desired results.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, just answer me this...

Doesn't the plan that the Tea Party want require a new Constitutional Amendment?

That's really realistic. As if that happened all the time.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, just answer me this...

Doesn't the plan that the Tea Party want require a new Constitutional Amendment?

That's really realistic. As if that happened all the time.

There isn't a "Tea Party" plan since CCB was voted down. There is the Bi Partisan plan by the speaker. But on CCB it did have a constitutional amendment for a balanced budget. Not that hard considering in the past 20 Senate Democrats have signaled publicly they want it, which gives the two thirds majority in the Senate. At which point it goes to the states, which seeing how many Republican Governors we have after the 2010 elections, and how popular the amendment is as the CNN poll points out, it is not that hard to get that as well.

[woz]

or put into context by saying that they also seem to support a plan that includes other things like tax increases on the rich as well?

[Roy Karrde]

or put into context by saying that they also seem to support a plan that includes other things like tax increases on the rich as well?

Neither of the plans put forward right now have tax increases, neither the bipartisan plan, or the hastily put together one in the Senate. Any chance for tax increases was killed by Obama last Friday when after Republicans and Democrats agreed to 800 billion in "additional revenue" Obama pushed for 400 billion more knowing the Republicans wouldn't go for that.

[woz]

was talking about the cnn poll results, not the actual plans put forward so far.

[Roy Karrde]

was talking about the cnn poll results, not the actual plans put forward so far.

With that there is not even a acknowledgment that the poll shows different results or that the Representative is right. He dodges and weaves away from it, even saying "Well, our polling tonight shows something a little bit different" even though they were both talking about the same poll. The fact is the host clearly did not want to acknowledge that the poll does show support for CCB. And seeing how the accusation was made that CNN fixed/changed/edited the poll on purpose, the host's inability to even acknowledge that pretty much kills that argument.

[woz]

he actually says the polling tonight shows something a little bit different in that 2/3rds of americans also want a plan that includes revenue increases as well

[Roy Karrde]

he actually says the polling tonight shows something a little bit different in that 2/3rds of americans also want a plan that includes revenue increases as well

Yes, but he won't acknowledge the other half, that the same poll also shows that CCB is supported by the vast majority of Americans, which is why he answered his question about compromise in such a fashion. Again as I said before seeing how the accusation was made that CNN fixed/changed/edited the poll on purpose, the host's inability to even acknowledge that pretty much kills that argument

[woz]

the "as well" part acknowledges that he concedes it shows that it has support but they also want to see other things included, not just the current ccb, which tom graves also doesn't acknowledge either.

[Roy Karrde]

the "as well" part acknowledges that he concedes it shows that it has support but they also want to see other things included, not just the current ccb, which tom graves also doesn't acknowledge either.

Umm first there is no "as well" line by King the line is "Well, our polling tonight shows something a little bit different; shows that most people want a plan that includes some revenue increases, two-thirds of Americans want that". The 'as well" comes from Tom Graves saying: "why there's been hundreds of thousands of Americans who have signed the pledge for that and why 66 percent of Americans according to your very own poll support that plan as well."

[Dark Sage]

Roy, come on. The last time there was even a proposed new Constitutional Amendment was when the ERA failed.

Bush Sr. wanted an Amendment to make desecration of the American flag a crime, but it never got past the drawing board.

You can't simply add Amendments onto the Constitution like it happens all the time. Such things have to be thought out slowly and carefully after months - if not years - of intense, and most importantly, bipartisan discussion.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, come on. The last time there was even a proposed new Constitutional Amendment was when the ERA failed.

Bush Sr. wanted an Amendment to make desecration of the American flag a crime, but it never got past the drawing board.

You can't simply add Amendments onto the Constitution like it happens all the time. Such things have to be thought out slowly and carefully after months - if not years - of intense, and most importantly, bipartisan discussion.

You realize that talk of a balanced budget amendment goes back to the founding days of our constitution correct? You also realize that it has been brought up many times before. Right now the numbers are there, if the 20 Senate Democrats were not lying through their teeth. Then the number is there for both houses of Congress and in the public sphere.

[woz]

then the poll actually does show something a little bit different in that 2/3rds of americans want a plan that has revenue increases and not just the ccb plan that tom graves was pointing out. it's a bit misleading to say 2/3rds of americans support the ccb plan when the poll shows that 2/3rds support a ccb plan, but 2/3rds also apparently support revenue increases as pointed out by cnn. you can't have it both ways, it's not bias to respond to tom graves suggesting ccb is supported by 2/3rds of americans when that isn't the entire story from the poll, as 2/3rds also support revenue increases.

[Roy Karrde]

then the poll actually does show something a little bit different in that 2/3rds of americans want a plan that has revenue increases and not just the ccb plan that tom graves was pointing out. it's a bit misleading to say 2/3rds of americans support the ccb plan when the poll shows that 2/3rds support a ccb plan, but 2/3rds also apparently support revenue increases as pointed out by cnn. you can't have it both ways, it's not bias to respond to tom graves suggesting ccb is supported by 2/3rds of americans when that isn't the entire story from the poll, as 2/3rds also support revenue increases.

Except the question to Tom Graves was why they were not negotiating on the CCB. His answer was because the American people are behind it. If this wasn't the CCB and they were talking about a regular debt bill that only had spending cuts, the question would have merit. Seeing how they were talking about the CCB, and Tom Graves was addressing the poll specifically talking about the CCB, it does not.

[woz]

no, the question is about compromise, and he doesn't answer it, he uses the cnn poll to back up the ccb plan suggesting 2/3rds of americans support it and there's no time to compromise, but the poll also shows that 2/3rds support different options like revenue increases. if the poll shows the same level of support for another option then the question about why aren't they willing to compromise when there is the same level of support for a different option is valid.

[Roy Karrde]

no, the question is about compromise, and he doesn't answer it, he uses the cnn poll to back up the ccb plan suggesting 2/3rds of americans support it and there's no time to compromise, but the poll also shows that 2/3rds support different options like revenue increases. if the poll shows the same level of support for another option then the question about why aren't they willing to compromise when there is the same level of support for a different option is valid.

And again if this was something different then there would be a reason for compromise, but again when you have the vast majority of the public supporting what you already have, there is no need to change it. The poll was for CCB as it currently was, and the question for CCB as it currently was shows a clear majority of support. But you know what? You know what the key point is? It's that the CNN anchor did not even acknowledge he was right, and that their poll showed that CCB was supported by the vast majority of people. And at the end of the day, that is the point.

[woz]

and again, you also have vast majority of the public support for a different option, so maybe there is a need to compromise? the key point is the poll also showed that there was a different plan, also supported by the vast majority of people. so to just focus on ccb and getting angry that the anchor pointed out the same level of support for a different plan is just daft.