2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, people were saying that the country was at risk of slipping into a full-scale depression.

To compare an actual depression to the situation we have now, according to an online textbook I looked up, the unemployment rate in the United States averaged around 25% during the Great Depression. And it was worse in other countries, reaching 33% in some.

Now, call everything Obama has done a failure, but he has prevented such a crisis from happening.

And instead of actually not wasting 800 billion dollars and allowing those companies to fail and then we rebound our economy, we have had 3 years of stagnation, with atleast from what the CBO is reporting atleast two more to come.

Might I add, the DJIA has flirted with its highest close in years.

Which means very little, I point you to what Democratic Strategists are saying.

Democratic pollster Stanley Greenberg is out with a must-read polling memo this morning, which offers some eye-opening advice to President Obama and his re-election team. After testing several of the president’s economic messages, he finds the argument that the economy is back on the right track polls miserably – and “produces disastrous results.”

“It is weaker than even the weakest Republican message and is 10 points weaker in intensity than either Republican message,” Greenberg wrote. “A third said this message made them less likely to support Barack Obama. Alarmingly, this message barely receives majority support among self-identified Democrats – and even less support among all other groups.”

The memo reads as a glaring wake-up call to the White House, which has been trumpeting improving economic figures lately. Greenberg notes that voters are reporting “no improvement” in their job situation since last June, and have experienced reduced wages and benefits and health insurance coverage. The picture Greenberg’s polling paints is an America public still deeply pessimistic about their future, and skeptical of Obama’s handling of the economy.

http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2...dont-think.php

If any Democrat wishes to run on the message of "Happy days are here again" PLEASE be my guest.

[Dark Sage]

If any Democrat wishes to run on the message of "Happy days are here again" PLEASE be my guest.

Did I say that? Please don't put words in my mouth.

The country isn't in great shape, but I don't see the GOP offering any solutions. They simply been anti-Obama for the past three years.

Before you go into detail about the bills they've tried to pass, please look at them closely. They were all ridiculous and would have accomplished nothing.

They waste time with repelate bills that die in the Senate, bring up issues like keeping "In God We Trust" on our currency, and dubunk every policy that Obama tries to impose.

In fact, I sincerely believe that if the Affordable Health Care Act were initiated by a Republican President (as Romney might have if he had been nominated and elected in 2008) no-one would have any problem with it. The GOP can't stand the fact that they aren't running things.

And after the mess at that debate on Wednesday, I think they've hurt their chances of "running things" a great deal.

[Roy Karrde]

Did I say that? Please don't put words in my mouth.

By quoting the DOW you are inferring that the economy is getting better.

The country isn't in great shape, but I don't see the GOP offering any solutions. They simply been anti-Obama for the past three years.

Before you go into detail about the bills they've tried to pass, please look at them closely. They were all ridiculous and would have accomplished nothing.

They waste time with repelate bills that die in the Senate, bring up issues like keeping "In God We Trust" on our currency, and dubunk every policy that Obama tries to impose.

Really? All 30+ bills the GOP House has passed are ridiculous and accomplish nothing? I thought you were only posting facts.

Lets look at a few shall we?

The Small Company Capital Formation bill changes SEC rules to allow companies to sell up to $50 million in shares without filing lengthy paperwork — and its equivalent passed the House by a vote of 421 to 1. Sen. Pat Toomey has introduced the companion measure in the Senate, and his bill enjoys the support of numerous Democratic co-sponsors.

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison’s Shareholder Registration Thresholds bill would increase the number of shareholders permitted to invest in a community bank from 500 to 2,000. Its House version passed the lower chamber by a slightly smaller margin than Sen. Toomey’s bill — or 420 to 2. Democratic senators Claire McCaskill, Ben Nelson and Mark Pryor are co-sponsors.

The Access to Capital for Job Creators act, sponsored by Sen. John Thune, would eliminate an SEC regulation that inhibits companies from reaching out to potential investors in order to raise capital. More than 400 members of the House voted for its equivalent, too — 175 of them Democrats.

The House version of Sen. Scott Brown’s Democratizing Access to Capital act drew the support of 169 House Democrats — and 407 members of the House total. It would change SEC regulations that inhibit entrepreneurs from raising capital among large groups of small dollar investors.

Atleast 4 of the GOP's 30+ job bills have drawn MASSIVE support, and yet the Democrats in the Senate have held it up. So does that mean that all of these Democratic congressmen believe they are ridiculous and accomplish nothing?

In fact, I sincerely believe that if the Affordable Health Care Act were initiated by a Republican President (as Romney might have if he had been nominated and elected in 2008) no-one would have any problem with it. The GOP can't stand the fact that they aren't running things.

Doubtful, Washington may not want to repeal it, but the states which bear the burden of the ridiculous law would be jumping at the chance to repeal it.

[Dark Sage]

In other news...

Rick Santorum has publically denounced Mr. Obama for his apology for the accidental burning of several copies of the Quran, the incident that has caused a crisis in Afghanistan. He says that the President showed "weakness" by doing so.

Mr. Santorum, if I may be blunt... Apologizing does not show weakness, it shows class, compassion, and understanding, all things you would not know if they punched you in the face. I'll bet you would demand an apology from the ruler of Afghanistan if it had been members of his militia burning copies of the Bible.

That's my $0.02

[Heald]

Santorum, once again, shows why he is not suitable for the highest office, nor the role of Commander-in-Chief. This is either breath-taking ignorance of the US mission in Afghanistan, or he is just trying to make everything Obama does look bad.

[Roy Karrde]

You know, I hate to say it but I am with Santorum on this, should we have handled it better? Yeah, ( although the books needed to be destroyed ) but right now those animals are responding by killing coalition troops including throwing a hand grenade and injuring several U.S. soldiers today alone. Will the Afghanistani's apologize for that?

If the apology was going to defuse the situation, then really it is a cost free thing to do, but it didn't and in many ways it made it worse, and at that point the apology disgraces the troops that are dying because of this.

And this isn't to say Obama did the right thing or not, he tried to diffuse the situation, just looking back, now that the deaths are mounting up. And the legitimacy the apology gave to the situation, it is looking like the wrong thing to say.

Good God I will be glad when we get out of there and allow these prehistoric bastard to get to slaughtering each other.

[Dark Sage]

Romney seems to agree with Santorum here. Big surprise.

Come to think of it, apologizing is something that Republicans seem to be loath to do. I certainly never heard the words "I'm sorry" come out of Bush's mouth. Limbaugh apologized once in his career, i believe. Every other time he said something that turned out to be a boldfaced lie, he made excuses.

Obama has to apologize. We need the support of the government of Afghanistan. Because the GOP doesn't want to raise taxes, we lack the funds to fight the Taliban by ourselves. And unless we discover a cave full of pirates' treasure somewhere on US soil, we aren't going to get the funds.

The GOP is just showing how desperate they are to paint the President as incompetent by making statements like this. I ask Santorum and Romney... Since you're so concerned about family values, didn't your parents ever tell you to apologize when you did something wrong? Even if it was an accident?

Mine sure did. 'Nuff said.

[Heald]

You're right, he should have said 'Fuck you and your book of spells', that would've been much better

Which, although you weren't implying he SHOULD say that instead of apologising, the Afghan people would have taken the absence of an apology as such. The USA has alienated nearly every nation on the planet in the last 10 years with its rather careless attitude to the sentiments and feelings of other cultures, any President would do well to at least pretend they care about it and to start repairing the wounds.

[Roy Karrde]

Romney seems to agree with Santorum here. Big surprise.

Come to think of it, apologizing is something that Republicans seem to be loath to do. I certainly never heard the words "I'm sorry" come out of Bush's mouth. Limbaugh apologized once in his career, i believe. Every other time he said something that turned out to be a boldfaced lie, he made excuses.

You don't remember Abu Gharab?

Obama has to apologize. We need the support of the government of Afghanistan. Because the GOP doesn't want to raise taxes, we lack the funds to fight the Taliban by ourselves. And unless we discover a cave full of pirates' treasure somewhere on US soil, we aren't going to get the funds.

The hell? You honestly think the Afghanistan Government is helping pay for this war?

The GOP is just showing how desperate they are to paint the President as incompetent by making statements like this. I ask Santorum and Romney... Since you're so concerned about family values, didn't your parents ever tell you to apologize when you did something wrong? Even if it was an accident?

Mine sure did. 'Nuff said.

So umm... when will the Afghanistani's be apologizing for all the troops their own people are killing in response?

You're right, he should have said 'Fuck you and your book of spells', that would've been much better

Which, although you weren't implying he SHOULD say that instead of apologising, the Afghan people would have taken the absence of an apology as such. The USA has alienated nearly every nation on the planet in the last 10 years with its rather careless attitude to the sentiments and feelings of other cultures, any President would do well to at least pretend they care about it and to start repairing the wounds.

I agree it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't approach, I just wonder if not apologizing may have helped take out much of the legitimacy of this and allowed it to blow over. Because apparently now after the apology the backlash has become even larger, in Libya for example after it was heard Obama apologized they went and desecrated the grave site of thousands of British troops.

[Dark Sage]

I am not saying for one minute that the riots and the murder of American troops was justified. The Taliban has clearly used this incident as a propaganda device, as terrorists often do.

But not apologizing would have been the equivalent of him saying "screw you" and would have made it worse. It would have also lowered the chances of the Afghan government helping to quell this violence and punish the two murders to almost nonexistent.

[Heald]

I agree it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't approach, I just wonder if not apologizing may have helped take out much of the legitimacy of this and allowed it to blow over. Because apparently now after the apology the backlash has become even larger, in Libya for example after it was heard Obama apologized they went and desecrated the grave site of thousands of British troops.

I don't really see how the events are linked, no news source I can find, reputable or otherwise, seems to be linking the apology and further violence, only the continuing violence amidst an apology.

There is form on this as well. Bush's White House apologises after a soldier shot their books of spells. It's not like this is completely unheard of for a US president to do, considering how rare instances are (or at least how rare they are to be reported, I can image dozens of similar incidents that don't see the light of day).

[Roy Karrde]

I am not saying for one minute that the riots and the murder of American troops was justified. The Taliban has clearly used this incident as a propaganda device, as terrorists often do.

But not apologizing would have been the equivalent of him saying "screw you" and would have made it worse. It would have also lowered the chances of the Afghan government helping to quell this violence and punish the two murders to almost nonexistent.

As opposed to what? Now that he has apologized and given it legitimacy you have even more murderers out there, not to mention no court would dare punish them. And besides what has the Afghan Government done to quell the violence? It seems like nothing, especially with the grenade attack today.

I don't really see how the events are linked, no news source I can find, reputable or otherwise, seems to be linking the apology and further violence, only the continuing violence amidst an apology.

"Smashed: The mob rampaged through the grave yard after President Barack Obama apologised for U.S. soldiers burning the Koran"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1nWr31pCQ

There is form on this as well. Bush's White House apologises after a soldier shot their books of spells. It's not like this is completely unheard of for a US president to do, considering how rare instances are (or at least how rare they are to be reported, I can image dozens of similar incidents that don't see the light of day).

I agree its not unheard of, I just hate that we are the ones apologizing for a fucking book, while our troops are paying the ultimate price.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, I have many Islamic friends who would take issue at the Quran being called a "fucking book". Like I said, if it had been a bunch of Bibles that had been burned, Santorum would be singing a different tune.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, I have many Islamic friends who would take issue at the Quran being called a "fucking book". Like I said, if it had been a bunch of Bibles that had been burned, Santorum would be singing a different tune.

Oh I bet, I just question the values of anyone who would put a book over the lives of actual people, be it the Bible, Quran, or anything else.

[Heald]

"Smashed: The mob rampaged through the grave yard after President Barack Obama apologised for U.S. soldiers burning the Koran"

[Link]

Just because it happened 'after' doesn't mean it happened 'in response to'. Every news outlet is reporting it is continuing anger, with no one actually linking it to the apology.

I agree its not unheard of, I just hate that we are the ones apologizing for a fucking book, while our troops are paying the ultimate price.

Act like the bigger nation, since, guess what, you are the bigger nation. Your culture is 1000 years more advanced than theirs. Sure, you could start killing random Middle-Eastern people who are living in the US, but you're not. If you can't deal with the anger of a people of a nation you have willingly invaded, then don't invade. The Middle East has the mentality of Dark Ages Europe, thinking its alright to barbarically maim and kill anyone for spurious reasons. This would be fine if they also didn't have Russian weapons lying all over the fucking place. At the end of the day, all death in war is completely senseless, whether it is on the battlefield or because someone is pissed off over a book of spells.

[Roy Karrde]

Just because it happened 'after' doesn't mean it happened 'in response to'. Every news outlet is reporting it is continuing anger, with no one actually linking it to the apology.

Fair enough, the article seems to believe the two are linked. As by placing it after it suggests that the apology set them off, which it very well may have, as otherwise they could have done it days before.

Act like the bigger nation, since, guess what, you are the bigger nation. Your culture is 1000 years more advanced than theirs. Sure, you could start killing random Middle-Eastern people who are living in the US, but you're not. If you can't deal with the anger of a people of a nation you have willingly invaded, then don't invade. The Middle East has the mentality of Dark Ages Europe, thinking its alright to barbarically maim and kill anyone for spurious reasons. This would be fine if they also didn't have Russian weapons lying all over the fucking place. At the end of the day, all death in war is completely senseless, whether it is on the battlefield or because someone is pissed off over a book of spells.

I agree, we shouldn't have to deal with people with the mentality of the Dark Ages, because there is no way to deal with it. This should serve as a example that next time we just blow the shit out of the place from our ships and airplanes and let them pick up the ruins.

[Dark Sage]

To illustrate Herald's point, the Muslim population of the United States seems to realize it was an accident. There's no outcry here.

In fact, I have spoken to those Islamic friends I mentioned. They all say that they approve of the President's apology, AND they will more than likely vote for him.

[Roy Karrde]

To illustrate Herald's point, the Muslim population of the United States seems to realize it was an accident. There's no outcry here.

In fact, I have spoken to those Islamic friends I mentioned. They all say that they approve of the President's apology, AND they will more than likely vote for him.

You know I have tried to keep politics out of this, but you cannot honestly believe that the American public as a whole, is really going to support a apology to a people who right now are sending American citizens home in body bags as a response. Partisan views aside, the optics alone are incredibly bad for the President in this situation. To put it another way, this is how the situation looks to the American public.

[firepokemon]

Roy how many pokemon sites are you currently debating the US Presidential Election?

[Roy Karrde]

Roy how many pokemon sites are you currently debating the US Presidential Election?

Two, there is no real debate going on at Nico's Campaign Bus on Bulbagarden.

[Dark Sage]

You're using a political cartoon to get your point across? Those things are literally the bottom of the barrel of political opinions. They try to make humor over matters that are not funny at all.

I remember a political cartoon that made Clinton look like Richard Nixon. It implied that his presidency would end the same way. It was posted a year before he won re-election.

The cartoon you presented... I don't see the humor in it, or in the way Mr. Obama is depicted, even if it is a caricature.

I don't even look at these dumb things any more. I think I stopped around the outcry about the one that depicted two cops shooting a monkey and comparing it to Mr. Obama. I don't even read editorials any more. And if you were smart, you wouldn't either.

[Roy Karrde]

You're using a political cartoon to get your point across? Those things are literally the bottom of the barrel of political opinions. They try to make humor over matters that are not funny at all.

I remember a political cartoon that made Clinton look like Richard Nixon. It implied that his presidency would end the same way. It was posted a year before he won re-election.

I am giving you a political cartoon to emphasize how this is going to be playing out in many American voter's minds.

[Heald]

You know I have tried to keep politics out of this, but you cannot honestly believe that the American public as a whole, is really going to support a apology to a people who right now are sending American citizens home in body bags as a response. Partisan views aside, the optics alone are incredibly bad for the President in this situation. To put it another way, this is how the situation looks to the American public.

[badly drawn cartoon of a chimp referencing a current event standing behind an inflatable mallet in a field of giant white pop-tarts]

There seems to be absolutely no consensus on how the US public views this apology. The only people trying to make a big deal out of this are the Republican candidates and a few pundits.

This guy in the National Journal puts it best:

As one senior congressional GOP adviser told National Journal Saturday: "The military made a mistake, even if there were radical sayings written in the Korans, we should have sought the help of a local cleric on how to dispose of them. It was a stupid mistake by our military that undercut the very essence of our strategy. When similarly unfortunate events occurred, President Bush apologized as well. There are a thousand things to criticize about the president's handling of two wars. But this ain't one of them."

[Dark Sage]

New polls are out.

http://www.politico.com/polls/politi...ound-poll.html

I suggest everyone read the entire article.

I'm certain that Roy will post soon, saying that these polls are screwed or inaccurate. I'm not even going to argue with him when he does.

[Roy Karrde]

Nah considering that is one poll out of three that shows Obama ahead, USA Today has Obama losing swing states, as does Rasmussen. Making the Politico one the outlier of the group. But hey, any poll showing any candidate up or down, is absurd right now as the Republicans still have not chosen a nominee, and neither have really debated or gotten into it yet.

[Dark Sage]

Uh, Roy?

The two polls you posted have Obama trailing by an average of two percentage points behind Romney in individual states, and an average of five behind Santorum (who is about as electable as a tree stump at this point). The poll I posted has Obama leading them both by double digit numbers in a nationwide poll.

I rest my case.

[Roy Karrde]

Uh, Roy?

The two polls you posted have Obama trailing by an average of two percentage points behind Romney in individual states, and an average of five behind Santorum (who is about as electable as a tree stump at this point). The poll I posted has Obama leading them both by double digit numbers in a nationwide poll.

I rest my case.

Yes I said swing states as those are where the break down is, as these states will be what decide the election. Gallup/USA Today also has a national poll. Romney and Obama are tied, Santorum leads Obama right now.

I rest my case.

[Blademaster]

Herald's

*Heald's

I think people make that mistake on purpose now. It's like a nickname.

[Roy Karrde]

I see that the Obama Administration just gave Republicans ad material all the way to November.

“But is the overall goal to get our price” of gasoline down, asked [Mississippi Republican Congressman Alan] Nunnelee.

“No, the overall goal is to decrease our dependency on oil, to build and strengthen our economy,” [Energy Secretary Steven] Chu replied. “We think that if you consider all these energy policies, including energy efficiency, we think that we can go a long way to becoming less dependent on oil and [diversifying] our supply and we’ll help the American economy and the American consumers.”

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.c...8-9F75F373643F

The ad writes itself.

[Dark Sage]

I see that the Obama Administration just gave Republicans ad material all the way to November.



http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.c...8-9F75F373643F

The ad writes itself.

I, Brian Corvello, do solemnly swear, in front of all witnesses on this board, that if the GOP nominee, whoever it may be, can present a foolproof method of bringing the price of gasoline down to below three dollars a gallon and keep it there, rather than simply blame the Democrats for the high price, I will forever revoke my affiliation with the Democratic Party and register as a Republican this year.

I never break my word, by the way.

However, I truly doubt I'll have to deliver on this promise.

[Roy Karrde]

I, Brian Corvello, do solemnly swear, in front of all witnesses on this board, that if the GOP nominee, whoever it may be, can present a foolproof method of bringing the price of gasoline down to below three dollars a gallon and keep it there, rather than simply blame the Democrats for the high price, I will forever revoke my affiliation with the Democratic Party and register as a Republican this year.

I never break my word, by the way.

However, I truly doubt I'll have to deliver on this promise.

You may, but anything can be better than what we have now, as we have both a President and Energy Secretary who have gone on record and said they want higher gas prices. This in the end turns around and hurts both the middle and lower classes, but our economy as well.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, according to this ad, Secretary Chu made this controversial statement in 2008, and... Call me crazy, but Obama wasn't President yet then.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, according to this ad, Secretary Chu made this controversial statement in 2008, and... Call me crazy, but Obama wasn't President yet then.

He still brought him into his administration, that is a endorsement of his views.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, seeing as you like editorial cartoons so much, I'm sure you know about James G. Watt, Reagan's first Secretary of the Interior? Boy, cartoonists had a field day with that guy. I really doubt that Watt's controversial and downright stupid ideas about the energy crisis and the environment reflected the ideas of his boss at the time, whic is probably why Reagan started looking for a new Secretary of the Interior for his second term.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, seeing as you like editorial cartoons so much, I'm sure you know about James G. Watt, Reagan's first Secretary of the Interior? Boy, cartoonists had a field day with that guy. I really doubt that Watt's controversial and downright stupid ideas about the energy crisis and the environment reflected the ideas of his boss at the time, whic is probably why Reagan started looking for a new Secretary of the Interior for his second term.

And I am sure that he was attacked by the left for it. Thing is if you hire the person and keep him around you are giving defacto endorsement of his views. Not to mention there is very little to say that Chu has changed his views at all on wanting gas prices to be at European levels.

[Dark Sage]

In other news...

Romney is the probable winner in Arizona tonight, and is leading in Michigan.

The biggest surprise is, Santorum is starting to lose the support of Catholic voters, if the exit polls are any indication. He appears to have gotten only 30% of the Catholic vote this time.

[firepokemon]

Santorum is too nutty for the Catholics. The republican party should be ashamed about the quality of its Presidential wannabes. They are going to lose to Obama too. 2016 really needs a decent sort out because you can't keep running these crappy nominees that don't have a chance.

[Dark Sage]

IMHO, Santorum is nutty, period. Obama is the one adult in a room of squabling children.

And btw, it's official now. Romney has won Michigan.

[DarkestLight]

o.O Wait what? Then why does it say Ron Paul did?

[Dark Sage]

Ron Paul? He came in third.