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Thread: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

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  1. #1
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    that is not what the majority judgement says; it does not "make the original argument defacto unconstitutional" - that is not how decisions operate as this would mean a vast field of uncertainty in which unspoken implications were made law.

    to avoid such total ambiguity in decisions, this would have been actually accomplished had the majority joined with roberts when he was making such assertions in section III-A, III-B and III-D. they did not. instead, the majority decision provides us, in sum, on the subject of commerce:

    Code:
     
    There may, however, be a more fundamental objection 
    to a tax on those who lack health insurance.  Even if only
    a tax, the payment under §5000A(b) remains a burden 
    that the Federal Government imposes for an omission, not 
    an act. If it is troubling to interpret the Commerce Clause 
    as authorizing Congress to regulate those who abstain
    from commerce, perhaps it should be similarly troubling to
    permit Congress to impose a tax for not doing something. 
    Three considerations allay this concern. First, and most 
    importantly, it is abundantly clear the Constitution does 
    not guarantee that individuals may avoid taxation through
    inactivity.  A capitation, after all, is a tax that every-
    one must pay simply for existing, and capitations are 
    expressly contemplated by the Constitution.  The Court 
    today holds that our Constitution protects us from federal
    regulation under the Commerce Clause so long as we ab-
    stain from the regulated activity.  But from its creation, 
    the Constitution has made no such promise with respect to 
    taxes. See Letter from Benjamin Franklin to M. Le Roy 
    (Nov. 13, 1789) (“Our new Constitution is now established 
    . . . but in this world nothing can be said to be certain,
    except death and taxes”).
    Whether the mandate can be upheld under the Com-
    merce Clause is a question about the scope of federal 
    authority. Its answer depends on whether Congress can
    exercise what all acknowledge to be the novel course of 
    directing individuals to purchase insurance.  Congress’s
    use of the Taxing Clause to encourage buying something 
    is, by contrast, not new. Tax incentives already promote,
    for example, purchasing homes and professional educa-
    tions. See 26 U. S. C. §§163(h), 25A.  Sustaining the 
    mandate as a tax depends only on whether Congress has 
    properly exercised its taxing power to encourage purchas-
    ing health insurance, not whether it  can. Upholding the
    individual mandate under the Taxing Clause thus does 
    not recognize any new federal power.  It determines that 
    Congress has used an existing one.
    
    ...
    
    Third, although the breadth of Congress’s power to tax
    is greater than its power to regulate commerce, the taxing
    power does not give Congress  the same degree of control
    over individual behavior. Once we recognize that Con-
    gress may regulate a particular decision under the Com-
    merce Clause, the Federal Government can bring its full 
    weight to bear. Congress may simply command individ-
    uals to do as it directs.  An individual who disobeys may 
    be subjected to criminal sanctions.  Those sanctions can 
    include not only fines and imprisonment, but all the at-
    tendant consequences of being branded a criminal: depri-
    vation of otherwise protected civil rights, such as the right
    to bear arms or vote in elections; loss of employment op-
    portunities; social stigma; and severe disabilities in other
    controversies, such as custody or immigration disputes. 
    By contrast, Congress’s authority under the taxing
    power is limited to requiring an individual to pay money 
    into the Federal Treasury, no more. If a tax is properly
    paid, the Government has no power to compel or punish
    individuals subject to it. We do not make light of the se-
    vere burden that taxation—especially taxation motivated
    by a regulatory purpose—can impose.
    note that they explicitly do not answer "whether Congress can exercise what all acknowledge to be the novel course of directing individuals to purchase insurance", instead providing that the taxing power is sufficient.

    thus the majority do not answer as to whether commerce/necessary and proper would be insufficient.

    consider that roberts remarks in III-D that:

    Code:
    JUSTICE  GINSBURG questions the necessity of rejecting
    the Government’s commerce  power argument, given that 
    §5000A can be upheld under the taxing power.  Post, at 37. 
    But the statute reads more naturally as a command to buy 
    insurance than as a tax, and I would uphold it as a com-
    mand if the Constitution allowed it.  It is only because the 
    Commerce Clause does not authorize such a command 
    that it is necessary to reach the taxing power question. 
    And it is only because we have a duty to construe a stat-
    ute to save it, if fairly possible, that §5000A can be inter-
    preted as a tax.  Without deciding the Commerce Clause 
    question, I would find no basis to adopt such a saving 
    construction.
    this is the stance that you are essentially presenting, but we must recall that roberts was not joined in this section of the opinion, and was not joined in III-A and B, in which he explicitly 'decides the question', as you suggest would be performed "defacto".

    this section is roberts' excuse for why he joined the majority even if he did not find support in commerce/necessary and proper - his opinion on commerce/necessary and proper remains separate from the majority judgement. judgements must be performed explicitly and the majority did not join this opinion!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by kurai View Post
    note that they explicitly do not answer "whether Congress can exercise what all acknowledge to be the novel course of directing individuals to purchase insurance", instead providing that the taxing power is sufficient.

    thus the majority do not answer as to whether commerce/necessary and proper would be insufficient.
    By suggesting the taxing power is sufficient and having to go that course, again I note that it suggests that the commerce/necessary and proper clause is INSUFFICIENT.

    You can try to ignore that, but it would be ignorant on your part not to acknowledge that if it was sufficient they would not have needed to seek out the power of taxation to maintain it as constitutional.

    Remember the argument made by Obama all along was that the commerce/necessary and proper clause was all that was needed to cover it, and that it WAS NOT a tax! By having to change it to a tax, the court is saying that is the way it can be found valid, and not through the original argument. Because as I said for the umpteenth time, if they were to find the original way sufficient they would not have to go looking through the power of taxation. Period.
    Last edited by Roy Karrde; 28th June 2012 at 02:15 PM.

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