DragonballZ RPG

[Heald]

3. GM's deciding YOUR character's power? Just being a frequent poster makes your character Super Gogeta? I don't think so. Pick your own power level (one each for normal, super, super 2, etc.) and let the RPG maker decide if it's fitting or not. Remember, higher power levels don't make fighters stronger than their opponents. Don't believe me? Frieza was stronger than Goku, and Goku still beat him.

Way to take an idea out of context. I wasn't saying frequent posting means a better character, but being inactive for two months then turning up and saying that your character is better than everyone else kind of misses the point. And no, posting every day won't make you better than everyone else: someone who posts 20 times a month won't automatically have a better fighter than someone who posts 10 times a month, you've actually had to have been in fights or do training or whatever to justify it. I'm willing to go for an idea that people choose how strong they're getting and the GM can intervene if they think one person is running away with it. We've done this before in an RPG way before you joined the board and it worked out fine.

I'm not sure where you got this idea that Frieza was stronger than Goku; I was under the impression that SSJ Goku was stronger than 100% Frieza. At worst, Goku merely struggled when Frieza went all out, but he definitely wasn't losing.

[Mystic_clown]

Ok, my suggestions.

1. I'd prefer an alternate future with the Saiyan homeworld still existing. This is mainly so we're not restricted to the canon. Blade's idea of the RPG spanning across a galaxy is an interesting one. Seriously, what is it with villains and Earth? It's not that great of a planet.

2. I think we all agree that Saiyans can be a playable race. I'm going to have to agree though that Super Saiyans should at least be restricted to start with. In the show (or at least before the Frieza saga, the idea of a Super Saiyan was legendary. Now, when a character transformed into a Super Saiyan for the first time, it was almost epic (and please don't bring up Goten or Trunks, you KNOW). just feel that that first transformation should at least wait until an appropriate time, not just letting them to from the very beginning.

3. Charizard makes a good point. We're all skilled writers and we all know better than to power play and keep things interesting.

4. Ok, I'm a little biased towards this one because I want to play an Android *chuckles* I feel that Androids should be playable, though depending on what time period we're doing (chances are it will be futuristic) we'll need to find a way to include them without seeming like they're just there.

[pokemasterfrank]

o.o People still remember me.

I think I'm game for anything. I remember scrapping together some stuff for a rehash of SA a while back, but I never did anything about it. I wonder if I still have it.

Well, either way, sounds like you guys have it covered. I guess I'll just wait for you guys to post the topic?

[Ultimate Charizard]

I honestly dont think we need to overcomplicate by having specific power levels. We never bothered with them way back when. We all simply assumed we were roughly the same level and went from there. Most of the old RPG was involving training anyway. By the time any of the big bads came a round we had progressed to a stage where everyone was confident about each other writing even fights and knowing not to power play.

We didnt have everyone going SSJ at the same time either. It was done under circumstance, not just 'oh your above the correct level now, you have earned SSJ'. If anything thats the Vegeta mindset and look what happened to that. It wasnt his power level, it was his desperation and obsession to beat Goku.

Of course we just have to be sensible. Dont want to see anyone going SSJ cos theyre upset that the store is out of cheezy poofs.

Blade, its not a case of stifling. Its a case of making the story interesting without the quick flash in the pan "WAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH I CAN NUKE WHOLE FOREVERS!". Dragonball was more about the story than the action. The action was awesome but thats why they spent 3 episodes charging up for a fight, to build the tension of the story.

So officially id say....

1) Future but with some changes to history. None of the Z-Fighters are alive but all the Canon of Z still played out. Vegeta lived on earth, had kids with Bulma etc. However, Planet Vegeta was not destroyed and Saiyans still inhabit the universe. Vegeta however decreed that Earth is off-limits to any hostile Saiyan force.

2) Saiyan Descendants as well as some Purebloods that know more than theyre letting on. Just cos Vegeta said no Saiyans can attack earth doesnt mean some cant live there. Not to mention its a planet that Produced the majority of the Super Saiyans, (Well, Gohan, Trunks and Goten) so some may see it as a pilgrimage or even a training ground in the hopes that they can reach SSJ too. SSJ will come into it but not untill much later and for a Valid reason. Not just "well he can do it!"

3) Ignored. Specific power levels over complicate things and to me seems more of a bragging right. If were all good enough writers (and the people posting in this thread are) then we should be able to organise and self-limit ourselves to avoid power-playing. The only 'levels' that would outclass fighters are the SSJ's etc. Remember not everyone in the Show were even usefull fighters by the end of it. Krillin and Yamcha were outclassed most of the time. However its that will to fight despite their disadvantage that made the charachter. They had to fight to defend what they loved without knowing they can up their game to a whole new level as soon as it gets Dicey.

4) If its future, sure. Though remember that the Androids were stronger than SSJ. 18 kicked Vegeta's ass and snapped his arm with a single kick. There would have to be limits to stop them dominating the early RPG.

[Blademaster]

Look, I'm obviously biased towards my own ideas, but what bugs me about your ideas is that you guys seem to hold Super Saiyans to be some sort of godly race that HAS to be limited or banned outright, when in truth, the uuber powerhouse Saiyans like Goku, Vegeta, Broly, and their kin were, for lack of a better term, freaks of nature - the Saiyan equivalents of steroid-popping powerhouses that spend their entire lives in the gym. These guys fought in every environment imaginable, trained in ungodly conditions, had to DIE and/or hack the timespace continuum to become obscenely strong in short amounts of time...

Your AVERAGE Saiyan gone Super, on the other hand, would probably be a weakling by comparison. Maybe about as tough as Great Ape Vegeta, or Kaio-Ken Goku. So why is limiting them such a mandate?

[Heald]

Acceptable circumstances for going Super Saiyan include:

Friend being raped by Frieza
Getting raped by a Super Saiyan
Winning the gold for swimming at the Olympics
Having your planet raped

[Ultimate Charizard]

Acceptable circumstances for going Super Saiyan include:

Friend being raped by Frieza
Getting raped by a Super Saiyan
Winning the gold for swimming at the Olympics
Having your planet raped

Nice

[Ultimate Charizard]

Because its the fact they went through so much to get there that made them Super Saiyans in the first place. The Average Saiyan doesnt go Super. He stays average Saiyan.

I dont wanna sound insulting but all im hearing is 'i wanna make my hair go yellow and go AAAAAHHHHH! alot' because the way you describe it thats about the only effect SSJ will have.
Your taking the ultimate legendary goal of the Saiyan Race and making it easily attainable and fairly meaningless. Its like commercialising Christmas. Theres no meaning to it any more, its just there.

[Blademaster]

I dont wanna sound insulting but all im hearing is 'i wanna make my hair go yellow and go AAAAAHHHHH! alot' because the way you describe it thats about the only effect SSJ will have.

Or maybe it's because, you know, I've had an OC for the genre for awhile now, and he was carefully made so that going Super Saiyan - and beyond - is NECESSARY for him to survive. He's THAT weak.

Also, I don't mean to sound insulting, but...

Your taking the ultimate legendary goal of the Saiyan Race and making it easily attainable and fairly meaningless.

Three words:

Broly.

Goten.

Trunks.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Broly is a special case, its not even agreed as to wether or not hes even canon. As for Goten and Trunks thats explained by being sons of Super Saiyans. Gohan for example had to have his own 'breakthrough' because he was born before Goku went SSJ.

Nothings decided but i think its a little dissapointing to make SSJ so easy and meaningless just so you can play a certain charachter that couldnt fight his way out of a wet paper bag without it.

[Blademaster]

^Exactly.

As for Goten and Trunks thats explained by being sons of Super Saiyans.

And herein lies the key: If a child can go Super Saiyan simply by being the son/daughter of a Super Saiyan, the "ultimate legendary goal of the Saiyan race" would become nothing more than selective breeding overnight. It's Darwinism in its most basic form - you just need one Super Saiyan, and bam. Population explosion of Super Saiyans.

[Asilynne]

Power is relative, if we had ssjs as coomon whos to say the bad guy isnt something even more than that?

[Heald]

Apparently, before Goku, there was only a Super Saiyan once every a thousand years, and most Saiyans probably just went Oozaru in order to elevate their power-level. Since most Saiyans believed that going Super Saiyan was such a rare occurance, I imagine most didn't bother to try and attain it. Clearly, you have to be a certain power level to attain it, no matter what (in excess of a million according to the Frieza saga) since I'd imagine both Goku and Vegeta were way pissed in order to trigger the transformation many times before this point but their power levels were not enough. So, in order to be a Super Saiyan, you literally have to be one of the most powerful warriors in the universe. When Goku defeated Frieza, he became the most powerful warrior in the universe. His next two enemies, one came from a different time and the other was a demon locked in some giant testicle who needed Gohan's power to be unlocked. Otherwise, no other warrior from Goku's time could match him once he went Super Saiyan.

If you want a scale on how powerful Super Saiyans really are, SSJ3 Gotenks was so powerful he could rip a hole in space-time when he was in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. That's just incredible. Hell, the Supreme Kai is meant to be one of the most powerful beings but even the Super Saiyans eclipsed him. It isn't meant to be an everyday normal thing: Super Saiyans are way, way powerful, and allowing everyone and their dog to go Super Saiyan from the start sort of denigrates from their overall epicness.

[Mystic_clown]

Indeed, Super Saiyan are extremely powerful, almost insanely so. Usually when one turns into a Super Saiyan, it's usually something epic. For goku, it was when Frieza killed Krillan, and it wasn't an instant transformation as well. For Vegeta, after days of non-stop training and almost pretty much killing himself, he simply stopped caring anymore. Something snapped inside him. For future Trunks, it was after seeing Gohan, his only surviving friend, die infront of him. The only exceptions to this were regular Trunks and Goten, and their transformations were a complete surprise to everyone (Hell, Chichi cried when he did).

In response to the idea that descendants of super saiyans can go also go super saiyan, I'd like to point to a main character of GT, Pan. Now, by your logic, since Pan's the daughter of a super saiyan, she should be able to as well. Well, throughout the entire series of GT, she never once went super saiyan. Heck, she didn't seem to be anywhere near as good a fighter as Goten and Trunks were at her age. This can be attributed to the fact that the saiyan blood in her is starting to thin, due to the fact since her father was a half-breed and her mother was human, she's pretty much a quarter breed. If this is going to be set in the future (which everyone seems to agree on), than all of Goku and Vegeta's descendants could have lost the ability to go super saiyan, and it's gone back to legend again.

I'm not saying we should ban super saiyans outright. I'm just saying that at the beginning, that power should be out of reach, but you should be able to as the RPG progresses. Don't feel that your character would be piss weak without it. Even without the ability to go super, Goku and Vegeta were still pretty powerful. Goku managed to hold his own against Frieza long before he went super saiyan.

[Blademaster]

In response to the idea that descendants of super saiyans can go also go super saiyan, I'd like to point to a main character of GT, Pan. Now, by your logic, since Pan's the daughter of a super saiyan, she should be able to as well. Well, throughout the entire series of GT, she never once went super saiyan. Heck, she didn't seem to be anywhere near as good a fighter as Goten and Trunks were at her age. This can be attributed to the fact that the saiyan blood in her is starting to thin, due to the fact since her father was a half-breed and her mother was human, she's pretty much a quarter breed.

This is a good point, one which I expected would be brought to light in response to my 'breeding' idea. The thing is, though, that even half-bloods can go Super Saiyan, and so if the original Super was 'fruiful,' there'd be a lineage no matter what. Think this way:

Super + Normal A = Half-blood 1
Super + Normal B = Half-blood 2

Half-blood 1 + Half-blood 2 = Half-blood 3

It'd be the Saiyan equivalent of Adam and Eve: Provided that there's always at least 1 Super Saiyan or 2 Half-bloods, the lineage can and will continue exponentially.

Now granted, based on Goku's and Vegeta's actions in the anime, the Saiyans probably are primarily a monogamous race. But if a Super Saiyan were to enter the picture, then in the interests of their race, the Saiyans would probably 'stud' him/her. They don't seem to be THAT moral considering their willingness to kick the shit out of each other/other races and blow each other/other races up in the hopes of garnering power. So it's really unlikely to assume that the Saiyan race as a whole would just pass up a Super Saiyan without trying to get something more out of the deal.

[Heald]

Now granted, based on Goku's and Vegeta's actions in the anime, the Saiyans probably are primarily a monogamous race. But if a Super Saiyan were to enter the picture, then in the interests of their race, the Saiyans would probably 'stud' him/her. They don't seem to be THAT moral considering their willingness to kick the shit out of each other/other races and blow each other/other races up in the hopes of garnering power. So it's really unlikely to assume that the Saiyan race as a whole would just pass up a Super Saiyan without trying to get something more out of the deal.

True, but you're forgetting Goku was the first Super Saiyan for a thousand years, so either this Super Saiyan either never had any children or the Saiyans had never heard of the theory of evolution and thus didn't take advantage of it.

Besides, look at the Saiyans; they're hardly a race that favours society over self-preservation: all Saiyans shown in the series (apart from Goku and his lot) hated the ones more powerful than themselves and all strived to try and beat each other. If a Super Saiyan came along, they wouldn't all suddenly put their differences aside and suddenly try to all be friends, they'd still all try and beat each other up as they normally do. You're assuming that the Saiyans put their race before themselves, but in reality that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Dont even think of mentioning GT or trying to use it to validate anything other than what happens when someone else tries to squeeze all the juice out of an orange.

[Mystic_clown]

Me and Blademaster have spoken on MSN and have come up with a solution to suit his needs. He is now no longer opposed to the Super Saiyan restriction. So let's no get back to working on this damn thing.

[Blademaster]

^RESTRICTION. Not total banning. Just so that's clear.

[Mystic_clown]

Ok, I think we're all leaning towards the alternate future with planet Vegeta still existing, so I don't think setting is a problem now.

I got some support for the whole "guys wanting revenge against saiyans" plot for the start. Anyone agree?

[Heald]

Yeah that seems to be fine.

I was also not in favour of banning Super Saiyan outright, just not in favour of having them playable at the start, nor letting people go Super Saiyan for not good enough reasons.

So lets get it straight:

Setting: Alternate reality with Vegeta still existing
Time: Present or Future i.e. would this be in the time of the Z-fighters but we replace the Z-fighters or are the Z-fighters all dead and we play their descendants or new characters altogether?
Power Restrictions: Not sure what you two agreed on, but whatever. Just wondering how powerful do you think we should be i.e. Saiyan saga level, Frieza saga level etc. Bear in mind Goku was the most powerful fighter in the Saiyan saga with a power level of around 10 000, whereas Oozaru Vegeta had a powerful of around 100 000. Frieza in his second form had a power level of 1 000 000, so we can assume that both Frieza and Goku had power levels in excess of 10 000 000 in their final forms. I reckon if everyone starts at 5000, then at least there's room for improvement, especially if this is successful enough to have a sequel.
Enemy: I think we've agreed on a Saiyan warlord trying to wipe out the Earth Saiyans or something similar. Is that what you're suggesting M_c?

I've already fleshed out a prospective character and I don't think it matters what setting it is in order for him to be playable. So woo.

[Blademaster]

Setting: Alternate reality with Vegeta still existing

I'm in favor.

Time: Present or Future i.e. would this be in the time of the Z-fighters but we replace the Z-fighters or are the Z-fighters all dead and we play their descendants or new characters altogether?

I vote new Z-Fighters in the future. Why the future? I'll explain below.

I reckon if everyone starts at 5000, then at least there's room for improvement, especially if this is successful enough to have a sequel.

I vote that we have 5,000 be the AVERAGE. Saiyans have varying levels of strength, just like humans. Some might be tougher than normal, others might be weaker. Doesn't make sense for all our different characters to be equal.

Enemy: I think we've agreed on a Saiyan warlord trying to wipe out the Earth Saiyans or something similar.

Here's why I suggested the future: So enemies would have knowledge of the Dragon Balls. And with knowledge comes corruption... I have an idea for a plot, but I gotta do some research on it first. If anyone's interested, and I'm right, I'll suggest it later - maybe it could be a sequel.

[Phantom Echo]

i agree with EVERYTHING blade said.... just saying

[Ultimate Charizard]

i agree with EVERYTHING blade said.... just saying

How much you paying him Blade? Got yourself another lackey now huh?

[Blademaster]

How much you paying him Blade? Got yourself another lackey now huh?

...

Uh...

Shut up.

Anyway, I got a PM from someone asking about my idea, and I managed to get my 'research' done, so I'll present it:

DragonballZ.

When you see that name, whattaya think of? Golden hair? Giant energy blasts that can destroy planets? Power levels numerically exceeding 30^2?

Probably. But what about, I dunno... The DRAGON BALLS?

I been doing some research on these puppies, and I get the basic gist of 'em: Magic orange ball that brings good fortune, was split into 7 so thieves couldn't use it for bad stuff, gathering the seven makes a big-ass dragon appear and he'll grant you a wish within reason, then he vanishes.

Oh yeah, and the balls were made by little green men. Really, really badass little green men...

OK, we know that much. But what we don't know is... what exactly ARE the Dragon Balls? They summon the Eternal Dragon Shenron, or the Namekian Dragon Porunga, or the Shadow Dragon Omega Shenron, or the... uh... Red Dragon... Red Shenron... Yeah, yada yada yada. Whatever. But what ARE they? Do they each contain pieces of the Dragon, and need to be assembled like a puzzle? Are they keys to a dimensional gate that the Dragon inhabits in-between genie duty? Probably...

But let's take some liberties here, and assume that while the Dragon BALLS are products of the Namekians Kami and Guru, the Dragons themselves are not.

Let's instead say that these Dragons are divine creatures surpassing even Majin Buu in power (Uub's patheticness compared to Omega Shenron kinda backs this up, despite the whole "DEATH TO GT!!!11!" vibe everyone has going.), and that they can grant ANY wish imaginable.

Revive an entire planet? Done.

Kill 100 billion people? Done.

Become a fucking GOD? Done.

And let's also say that these Dragon Balls, rather than summoning the Dragon or creating it, do the exact opposite: They exist to LIMIT its near-unimaginable power, so that loonies like Frieza can't say "Hey, Dragon, make me immortal and make everyone in the Universe obey me. Also, make the Kais weaker than me, make my testicles descend, gi- what? I don't have testicles? Then give me some - four'll be good. And give me the power to transform into that spiky thing my brother turns into, and give me a lifetime supply of cake.".

And let's then say that a new enemy - we'll call him Joe for now - enters the picture. Let's say that Joe descends from a race as ancient and sage as the Namekians, if not moreso. And so, they - and he - know how the Dragon Balls work.

And let's THEN say that Joe delves into forbidden territory, stuff his people consider taboo but of course have anyway, and finds out not only how the Dragon Balls keep the Dragon surpressed, but also a way to 'unlock' the Balls - to separate them from the Dragon itself, unlocking its boundless power...


THIS is my idea. 'Joe' has the knowledge to separate the beast from its shackles, and so he is on a mission: Send his thugs out to collect the Dragon Balls, then bring them to him so he can call the Dragon, use his super high-tech machine to sever the bond between them and the Dragon, and then have the Dragon make him the most supreme being in existence.

Not a very original idea, but it's something.

Also, it doesn't leave the loose end MC's idea had: If this is an AU RPG, and Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, then why would Saiyans be on Earth to begin with?


OK, NOW I'm done.

[Andrew]

I'll be reading for the super homo-erotic desciptions that will eventually arise.

DBZ is so gay.

"Hay, let's go fly off together and do man stuff! Leave your mother behind!"

"Let's wear earrings!"

"I gots to power up by grunting a lot!"

haha.

[Asilynne]

Sorry to disappoint you Andrew but there would be some girl saiyans too like my char

Also as far as actual numbers for power lvls, It DID work really well for Franks DB SA, but I myself am horrible with numbers so if we did have them in this rpg could they be not super important for the story? I really hate math lol

[Andrew]

Can we get some better looking androids maybe? AT least they're far less gay.

[Heald]

I only want the power levels to be a guideline, not a way of deciding who wins certain fights, but it is hard to say which antagonists are more powerful than the fighters, so it is good to have a scale I suppose. That way, someone doesn't accidentally kill a character who is way too powerful for them, or something.

[Asilynne]

Ok its looking like we have a good start on a DBZ RPG now that some things have been smoothed out, you guys want to get together for a brainstorming plot session sometime today on aim or msn?

[Ultimate Charizard]

Im up for that, i dont have many of you on Aim but i have Asi and im on right now and probably for the rest of the day/night

SN is UCFananga

[Asilynne]

Ill be on later, my aim is NoNamedPriest :> and I know MC doesnt have AIM so my MSN is outlawgirlasi@msn.com

[Ultimate Charizard]

U never use MSN though, unless u have me blocked *cries*

[Asilynne]

I only use it when someone wants me to talk to them that doesnt have aim lol

[Phantom Echo]

can i be in this?

[Heald]

Sure. The topic should be up soon.

[Phantom Echo]

no not really....i read it and i liked it so i said i agreed......plainand simple as that

[Ultimate Charizard]

Well didnt Vegeta find out about Frieza blowing up his planet Suring/After the Saiyan saga or is that just what he did to keep them all in line?

Either way id say Frieza still managed to enslave the Saiyans (maybe just killed the king) without blowing up their planet and the rest of Z panned out as it did. It was under Frieza's orders that Vegeta and Nappa attacked earth remember.

I like the rest of the idea. Makes a change from 'collect the Dragonballs' since that would be exactly what the badguy wants. Im assuming it wouldnt have to be him that summoned the Dragon after all.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

That sounds good Blademaster I would be interested to sign up for this when all the details are completed.

And UC he didn't find out because none of the people close to Vegeta didn't know about it and he was told that a meteor just crashed into it.

[Asilynne]

I like Blades idea Ive never seen a DBZ rpg quite like that yet :>