2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Roy Karrde]

But it makes more of a difference to Romney, because HE was the one who thought it was a good idea.

See Roy, Romney, not Obama, was the one who thought that a President should be required to have three years of business experience, and now his VP pick doesn't meet that criteria!

Do you know what they call someone promotes an idea but doesn't practice it?

Woah hold on, first you said Obama does meet that criteria, now you say he doesn't? Which is it? Either both of them do not have private sector experience, or they both do?

[Dark Sage]

I say he does. He's worked for law firms, the New York Public Interest Research Group, and Business International Corporation.

Ryan, however, does NOT have three years of experience in companies like that. So he does NOT meet Romney's criteria.

You can't admit that I've made a valid point, can you? Why are you so mule-headed? You're just like...

Come to think of it, you're just like a Republican.

[Roy Karrde]

I say he does. He's worked for law firms, the New York Public Interest Research Group, and Business International Corporation.

Ryan, however, does NOT have three years of experience in companies like that. So he does NOT meet Romney's criteria.

Well we can go down to if he actually worked for those companies for three years, did so on and off again, or if many of those even count as companies. The New York Public Interest Research Group was a non profit company mobilizing student workers. The Business International Corporation has been said to be so small it is essentially a glorified news letter, not to mention he was only there for a year at best. The two law firms he was at was only summer interns and I do not know if you can even count a law firm as being a private sector business.

You can't admit that I've made a valid point, can you? Why are you so mule-headed? You're just like...

Come to think of it, you're just like a Republican.

Says the child who has ran away from the topic, what three times now? You're just like a Democrat.

[Dark Sage]

I don't "run away from the topic". I simply don't live here, as you seem to do.

And sometimes I just don't feel like discussing politics. I have a life outside this computer, you know?

Sometimes I don't even know what this thread is doing here. This forum is supposed to be about Pokemon.

[Roy Karrde]

I don't "run away from the topic". I simply don't live here, as you seem to do.

And sometimes I just don't feel like discussing politics. I have a life outside this computer, you know?

Yeah you are not fooling everyone, you get embarrassed and run.

Sometimes I don't even know what this thread is doing here. This forum is supposed to be about Pokemon.

No this forum is about Miscellaneous topics revolving around the real world, this message board is about Pokemon, but that does not mean that every board has to revolve around Pokemon.

As for why this topic is here? To provide entertainment for others.

[Blademaster]

I don't "run away from the topic". I simply don't live here, as you seem to do.

And yet you only seem to disappear in order to live that life after enough of your 'arguments' here get shit on by Roy.

Funny how that only works one way, ain't it? ¯\_(シ)_/¯

[shazza]

[Dark Sage]

I hereby nominate Rep. Todd Akin for the title of Male Chauvinist Pig of the Year.

And I challenge Roy to try to tell me that the mess the GOP is now in because of it, especially since Ryan sided with Akin on a failed "personhood" law, works to the GOP's benefit.

Go on, I could use the laugh.

[Heald]

Why any person, GOP or otherwise, thinks it is any of their business what happens to a woman's uterus, regardless of pregnancy, is beyond me.

[Dark Sage]

Why any person, GOP or otherwise, thinks it is any of their business what happens to a woman's uterus, regardless of pregnancy, is beyond me.

Heald, the idea that ANY rape can be considered "legitimate rape" is ludicrous.

And Akin was dead wrong. Pregnancies happen due to rape rather often. There are 32,000 cases of it happening, on average, annually.

I would say that Akin has just flushed his political career down the toilet and that the GOP can pretty much consider the Missouri Senate seat a lost cause for them at this point.

[Heald]

Breaking news- A member of the GOP has clarified their party's position on the reasons why a woman can't become pregnant by way of rape:

[Dark Sage]

Uh, I don't get it. Who's that?

[Magmar]

*appears*

Ron Burgundy!

*leaves thread*

[ChobiChibi]

Your life will not be complete until you watch Anchorman.

I love lamp.

[Roy Karrde]

Anchorman reminds me so much of a local talkshow host it is almost scary.

Also at Dark, I seem to remember you saying, oh what was it... OH YES!

Roy... That crosses the line...

This time I'm NOT coming back.

You can spout your conservative rhetoric all you want. But to paraphrse Richard Nixon, "you don't have Dark Sage to kick around any more".

And please don't tell me that the statement would be proven wrong, because I know. "

So... I guess your statement was proven wrong!

Now may I ask, where do you wish to be kicked?

[MToolen]

I believe it was "around," Roy.

I'm actually from the St. Louis area, so I've been hearing McCaskill/GOP attack ads for quite some time now. Akin seems to be about as good at gaffes as our dear vice president, at one point likening college scholarships to "stage three cancer of socialism," if I remember correctly. I'm on the wrong side of the river to vote in his election, but it will be interesting to see just how far he pushes it, since the party has said he'd give up the goat, but he said he'd keep going (from what I last heard, earlier this evening, so that could've changed already).

[Roy Karrde]

I believe it was "around," Roy.

Damn... and I just got new kickin' shoes

I'm actually from the St. Louis area, so I've been hearing McCaskill/GOP attack ads for quite some time now. Akin seems to be about as good at gaffes as our dear vice president, at one point likening college scholarships to "stage three cancer of socialism," if I remember correctly. I'm on the wrong side of the river to vote in his election, but it will be interesting to see just how far he pushes it, since the party has said he'd give up the goat, but he said he'd keep going (from what I last heard, earlier this evening, so that could've changed already).

Interesting thing to note, McCaskill's campaign poured over a million dollars into ads to get Akin nominated as they saw him as the weakest and most Gaffe prone. If he does bow out in the next few days as is being HEAVILY suggested of him, all that money and time would be for naught.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, you don't seem to have commented on the issue at all.

This doesn't seem to be about me. This is about a mysoginistic and ignorant statement that a GOP Senate candidate has said.

Can I please have your opinion of it?

Because frankly, I don't think the GOP's chances of convincing women voters to their side are very good right now. Not unless they find a way to raise Susan B. Anthony herself from the dead and convince her to campaign for them.

And if they want to try that plan, given their attitude, they'll find the second part a LOT harder than the first.

[Andrew]

This is the worst thread.

You're ruining TPM. Yes, you.

[Dark Sage]

Then please, Andrew, lock the thread.

Heald won't do so, because he finds the discussion "amusing".

I only make these comments because I'm sick of Roy's blind loyalty the GOP. He seems strangely unwilling to give an opinion now that a member of their party has said something truly terrible.

[Heald]

I believe the expression is 'Silence is golden'.

[Asilynne]

I hereby nominate Rep. Todd Akin for the title of Male Chauvinist Pig of the Year.

And I challenge Roy to try to tell me that the mess the GOP is now in because of it, especially since Ryan sided with Akin on a failed "personhood" law, works to the GOP's benefit.

Go on, I could use the laugh.

Just saying, what that guy said reflects on him, not the GOP as a whole. Or at least, it shouldn't reflect on every other member of the same group of people, because judging an entire group of people on one man's actions or opinions is, well, I don't think I have to tell you how bad that is, just look at history.

One thing I really hate about politics is the idea of blocking people into groups; "he's getting the woman vote, the black vote, the gay vote, the immigrant vote" etc. To me that's offensive. That's treating anyone in these groups as one coalition, blindly going to vote for someone based on the newest outrage of the week and without thinking carefully about all the policies. Each person is unique, no one person has the exact same stance on things.

One candidate can't possibly have all of the same stances on everything as any one person. There are some parts of what each candidate believes that I like and some parts of each I dislike. I'm going to choose based on which candidate can do the best job on leading our country, and which have policies I believe are the best for America and which are personally the most important to me. I know I don't speak for women in general, and women in general don't speak for me, but honestly what some politician from a different state says doesn't really matter to me.

People should be responsible for their own actions, instead of the group getting the blame for it. This applies to not just political parties but race, gender, religious affiliation, and sexual orientation. Don't blame all Christians for the westboro baptist church, don't blame all white people for the KKK, don't blame all LBGT people for the guy who shot the guard at the FRC and don't blame all GOP for this guys poor choice of words. Blame the individuals because no group can control every one of its members.

And lets face it, every politician is destined to say something stupid, no one is immune. But nitpicking the candidates based on every gaffe and basing your voting habits on blindly following party lines is stupid and is contributing to the dumbing down of our society.

I'm including Roy in this too because I think both him and Dark Sage are basically the same kind of person, you're just on different sides of the fence. Both of you need to get over your intense love affair of your parties and admit that neither one is the evil incarnate that you think it is lol

[Heald]

Just saying, what that guy said reflects on him, not the GOP as a whole. Or at least, it shouldn't reflect on every other member of the same group of people, because judging an entire group of people on one man's actions or opinions is, well, I don't think I have to tell you how bad that is, just look at history.

One candidate can't possibly have all of the same stances on everything as any one person. There are some parts of what each candidate believes that I like and some parts of each I dislike. I'm going to choose based on which candidate can do the best job on leading our country, and which have policies I believe are the best for America and which are personally the most important to me. I know I don't speak for women in general, and women in general don't speak for me, but honestly what some politician from a different state says doesn't really matter to me.

People should be responsible for their own actions, instead of the group getting the blame for it. This applies to not just political parties but race, gender, religious affiliation, and sexual orientation. Don't blame all Christians for the westboro baptist church, don't blame all white people for the KKK, don't blame all LBGT people for the guy who shot the guard at the FRC and don't blame all GOP for this guys poor choice of words. Blame the individuals because no group can control every one of its members.

The problem with this is that Akin has form on this and, like many Republicans (and probably some Democrats as well) wants to make abortion illegal even if the pregnancy was the result of a rape. Granted that Akin's so-called science on the matter is probably separates him from other members of the GOP (i.e. a woman cannot become pregnant through rape) but the underlying policy is still there - abortion in all cases should be illegal.

I see now that he is facing calls from his own party to step down, but it seems only because of his comments regarding 'legitimate rape cannot result in pregnancy', not for the fact he still believes in the policy he was using the former statement to justify.

[Asilynne]

The problem with this is that Akin has form on this and, like many Republicans (and probably some Democrats as well) wants to make abortion illegal even if the pregnancy was the result of a rape. Granted that Akin's so-called science on the matter is probably separates him from other members of the GOP (i.e. a woman cannot become pregnant through rape) but the underlying policy is still there - abortion in all cases should be illegal.

I see now that he is facing calls from his own party to step down, but it seems only because of his comments regarding 'legitimate rape cannot result in pregnancy', not for the fact he still believes in the policy he was using the former statement to justify.

I only really popped into this clusterfuck to say what I had already said, and I'm not going to get into a debate on abortion since that is something people have strong feelings about and who are unlikely to change their minds, but not all women want abortion to be legal. Some people actually don't believe it should be legal since it can and is misused as a form of birth control (not for everyone, but it does happen). So saying that he is being caused to step down for the way he said something instead of the policy he supports really doesn't negatively affect these people either. Not wanting abortion to be legal isn't "woman hating" its just "abortion hating".

We could go in circles all day but I have no interest in trying to change anyone's minds about that particular stance since it can get very ugly, very fast, so this is all I will say on this subject

[Heald]

I only really popped into this clusterfuck to say what I had already said, and I'm not going to get into a debate on abortion since that is something people have strong feelings about and who are unlikely to change their minds, but not all women want abortion to be legal. Some people actually don't believe it should be legal since it can and is misused as a form of birth control (not for everyone, but it does happen). So saying that he is being caused to step down for the way he said something instead of the policy he supports really doesn't negatively affect these people either. Not wanting abortion to be legal isn't "woman hating" its just "abortion hating".

We could go in circles all day but I have no interest in trying to change anyone's minds about that particular stance since it can get very ugly, very fast, so this is all I will say on this subject

I completely agree with you, I'm just saying that in response to 'you can't compare the whole of the GOP with this guy', he has previous form on such views without any kind of disapproval from the GOP, which will usually be interpreted as implicit approval, which is why it will reflect badly on the GOP as a whole. The fact he has chosen campaign season to stick his foot in his mouth exacerbates the damage this statement has done, so the GOP should ideally want to be on damage control if his views are truly not representative of what a good-minded Republican should be saying.

I'm not trying to argue whether abortion is right or wrong (I've made my opinion on the matter very clear in recent years), I'm just saying that his science behind his reasoning is completely insane and it does reflect badly on his party, especially since this is not the first time he has expressed such views.

[Asilynne]

OMG Heald, I think we just had the first pleasant, respectful exchange this topic has ever seen!!!!

[Heald]

I tried being nice to Dark Sage but he just insulted the pretty pictures of ponies I was posting

[Asilynne]

I tried being nice to Dark Sage but he just insulted the pretty pictures of ponies I was posting

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, you don't seem to have commented on the issue at all.

This doesn't seem to be about me. This is about a mysoginistic and ignorant statement that a GOP Senate candidate has said.

Can I please have your opinion of it?

Because frankly, I don't think the GOP's chances of convincing women voters to their side are very good right now. Not unless they find a way to raise Susan B. Anthony herself from the dead and convince her to campaign for them.

And if they want to try that plan, given their attitude, they'll find the second part a LOT harder than the first.

I, like the rest of the GOP right now believe that he should back out, what he said was disgusting and I believe that he should do the proper thing and leave the race.

[Gavin Luper]

Then please, Andrew, lock the thread.

Heald won't do so, because he finds the discussion "amusing".

I only make these comments because I'm sick of Roy's blind loyalty the GOP. He seems strangely unwilling to give an opinion now that a member of their party has said something truly terrible.

I'm with Heald, it's entertaining at times. And I want to see the thread through to its logical conclusion.

Why any person, GOP or otherwise, thinks it is any of their business what happens to a woman's uterus, regardless of pregnancy, is beyond me.

Well, if you were the man who caused said pregnancy, I imagine you would find it to be entirely part of your business.

[Heald]

Well, if you were the man who caused said pregnancy, I imagine you would find it to be entirely part of your business.

Not that I'm looking to start a debate here on abortion, but I will accept that as a caveat, although I am of the opinion that although the father-to-be has a right to discuss the pregnancy with the mother, he has no right to any final decision on whether she should keep it or not.

I was, in general, speaking about either the government or pro-lifers who want to interfere in the personal lives on people who they have never met.

[MToolen]

[...] I want to see the thread through to its logical conclusion.

Still, any forum activity is better than no forum activity.

I am conflicted on this issue. Ideally, I'd want no life to be wasted; I believe the choice on letting a person live or not is too big for me. Still, I know that quality of life must be considered, both for the child and mother. Can the child be supported? Is there a family ready to raise him or her? There are so many variables that I can't quietly slip into one side or another. And I think it's okay to have doubt on issues like this.

[Dark Sage]

I, like the rest of the GOP right now believe that he should back out, what he said was disgusting and I believe that he should do the proper thing and leave the race.

The problem is, Roy, Ryan agrees with him. He has made his views on abortion quite clear - that it should be illegal in all cases, and as I said, sided with Akin on a failed "personhood" bill that would have essentially made anyone who performed any abortion, regardless of the reason, a murderer.

And Heald, when exactly did I make fun of your My Little Pony picture?

[Roy Karrde]

The problem is, Roy, Ryan agrees with him. He has made his views on abortion quite clear - that it should be illegal in all cases, and as I said, sided with Akin on a failed "personhood" bill that would have essentially made anyone who performed any abortion, regardless of the reason, a murderer.

There is a difference between debating personhood, and believing that a woman's body responds differently to "legitimate rape". That is the problem plaguing Akin right now, not the question of personhood.

[Dark Sage]

Let me put this plainly:

RAPE: The unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

THAT is the definition of the crime of rape. Anyone who says differently has NO idea what he is talking about.

And there is NO such thing as a "legitimate rape". As Mr. Obama said, rape is rape. I doubt that the victim of a rape cares whether anyone considers it "legitimate" or not.

[Roy Karrde]

Let me put this plainly:

THAT is the definition of the crime of rape. Anyone who says differently has NO idea what he is talking about.

And there is NO such thing as a "legitamite rape". As Mr. Obama said, rape is rape. I doubt that the victim of a rape cares whether anyone considers it "legitimate" or not.

And we are in complete agreement, which is why Akin should go.

Just like I would say Biden should go for his Slavery comment.

[Dark Sage]

Fine, we agree on something.

But he has said that he will not drop out, nor will he retract his opinion. And it's just going to hurt him and everyone associated with him, whether they like it or not.

And I believe that his deadline to drop out without it costing him anything is... Thursday.

[Roy Karrde]

Fine, we agree on something.

But he has said that he will not drop out, nor will he retract his opinion. And it's just going to hurt him and everyone associated with him, whether they like it or not.

And I believe that his deadline to drop out without it costing him anything is... Thursday.

He can say he won't drop out but that does not mean he won't especially when his private aids are hinting that he will.

[shazza]

Who said what? I'm intrigued and don't really follow American politics these days!

[Dark Sage]

Todd Akin, a Missouri Senate GOP candidate, said that "victims of legitimate rape rarely become pregnant".

Not only is he dead wrong, but the idea that there is even such a thing as "legitimate rape" is absurd.