Fort Hood Shooting, Army Major Goes Insane

[Roy Karrde]

So the day's events have wrapped up, and I am surprised there wasn't a topic about this yet. This hit pretty close to home as I used to live in Waco Texas which is right next to Fort Hood and I heard about it all the time.

Anyway here is what I can piece together what happened, Major Nidal Malik Hasan was a loner, some one who was strictly devoted to Islam almost fanatically, he had been in the army for several years and disagreed with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. As the years went on he became scared he would have to go over and fight against Muslims and as such he began to get more and more radical. Around six months ago it came to the attention of the authorities that he made a blog post about how suicide bombers could be considered heroes and "If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory."

He soon found out that he was going to be deployed to Iraq, he got a lawyer and tried to fight the deployment to no avail. This morning he finally broke down, and was seen giving away his possessions to his neighbors, as well as walking into a 7/11 wearing traditional muslim garb.

Around 1:30 CST he entered Fort Hood with two semi automatic handguns, he walked into the medical area where soldiers were being checked over before being deployed, and opened fire killing 11 people, and wounding around 40. Fort Hood Police responded immediately and he was shot four times and yet still survived. Tonight he is in military custody and most likely will face execution. This has been called the worst massacre on a US army base in American history.

CNN Video from this morning

His Blog posting about suicide bombers

[RedStarWarrior]

I saw it on the news earlier.

[Crystal Mew]

very sad, I have a friend who is stationed there, but luckily (or..not?) he is in Iraq, but his family still lives there.

I hate when people feel the need to go insane, my prayers are with all the families

[Houndoom_Lover]

>w< I shouldn't be here when I'm on a manic run. So much rudeness pouring outta me.

I saw it on the news too

But yeah. This is what happens when you make drafts nessicary. Good thing I have a uterus.

[mr_pikachu]

I caught this on the radio tonight (first time voluntarily listening to radio news in several years, ironically enough). A really sad story. It was actually sparking some fiery debates in my area, with some arguing that the military should engage in racial and religious profiling -- a practice which is outlawed in the civilian populace, but which the military might have justification for doing.

It's hard to say what, if any, policy changes will be made in response to this. For the moment, though, it seems appropriate to just pause in memory of those who have fallen and pray that this doesn't happen again.


EDIT: I don't think the draft has been used since Vietnam, HL. This was just a guy who voluntarily registered for the armed forces, yet who didn't want to fight people whose religious beliefs fell in line with his own.

[Roy Karrde]

But yeah. This is what happens when you make drafts nessicary. Good thing I have a uterus.

Umm he wasn't drafted, he just went nuts and believed he needed to choose a side "Muslims" or "US Army" and if his blog is any hint to his final plans, he decided that trying to kill soldiers by surprise that would be deployed to "Kill Muslims" was a worthy action.

[Houndoom_Lover]

He couldn't refuse deployment. *points to up* That's apart of being in the millitary, lu drafting. I do beleive women have the right to say no to anything. I do beleive. We at least don't fight on the front lines.

[mr_pikachu]

Um... sorry, but that's inaccurate in multiple ways. First, this isn't 1920, so yes, females are permitted to engage in combat. Second, once you sign the contract to join the military, you're bound to those military duties. It's all in the agreement, and breaking that contract makes you subject to court-martial. "Drafting" is the process by which U.S. citizens are selected from the general populace to join the armed forces in wartime, but that hasn't been done for decades (for obvious reasons).

Moral of the story: If you don't want to fight, don't join the army, kids!

[Roy Karrde]

He couldn't refuse deployment. *points to up* That's apart of being in the millitary, lu drafting. I do beleive women have the right to say no to anything. I do beleive. We at least don't fight on the front lines.

Well Drafting and being Deployed are two different things. His career was in the US Army, he signed up in the 90s, got a full Med School benefit package, and was in the process of paying it back by the US Army. By signing on the dotted line he agreed to go fight in any war if he took the benefits provided to him by the US Army.

[Master Rudy]

Houndy you've got to get your terminology straight. Pika covered it pretty well in his post.

As for the douchebag he shouldn't have joined. Just because your enlisted that doesn't mean that your going to get a free ride due to religion or race. For example if we went to war with North Korea tommorow, the US Armed Forces aren't going to tell their troops of Korean decent "your exempt." A refusal to carry out your orders can result in anything from loss of rank, time in the brig and even a court martial/dishonorable discharge.

Now I don't know what kind of service record this guy had. However if I was his CO at Hood then I'd have started to become concerned the moment his behavior patterns started to change. In most cases a guy doesn't just suddenly snap overnight. It takes time to get to that point. As a result the real questions become "Did the Army truely know how crazy he was starting to get and if so why wasn't more done?"

Guess all we can do is sit back and wait for more info :-/

[mr_pikachu]

I didn't realize this guy was an Army psychiatrist. Of all the people, you'd think that someone like that would... um... er, actually....

Come to think of it, the only psychiatrist I personally know (father of a friend) is completely out of his skull. I guess this doesn't surprise me that much, actually. Knowing too much about the human psyche can make you a little crazy. For all we know, his imminent deployment may have merely been the last straw.

[PNT510]

He couldn't refuse deployment. *points to up* That's apart of being in the millitary, lu drafting. I do beleive women have the right to say no to anything. I do beleive. We at least don't fight on the front lines.

That's totally wrong. If you join the army man or woman you have to go wherever they send you whenever they want you to go. While woman might not be stationed on the front lines it's not like the current war we are fighting has front lines so it's not uncommon for them to see combat in the middle east.

[Telume]

He couldn't refuse deployment. *points to up* That's apart of being in the millitary, lu drafting. I do beleive women have the right to say no to anything. I do beleive. We at least don't fight on the front lines.

Actually Houndy yeah, when you sign on the dotted line it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, you're going whereever they send you.

What you mean though is that women are currently not required to register with the military (in case of a draft) but, I heard that they're working to change that as well.

(Which means that if you apply for financial aid you're going to have to say yes to sign up for it otherwise you're getting denied.)

[Blademaster]

Not quite sure how to respond to this. Considering Houndy stole my limelight of randomly throwing stupid shit around everywhere... I REALLY gotta work to outshine that. So... ahem...

"This is all Bush's fault."

*bows*

That is all. Play me off, keyboard cat.

[Dark Scizor]

It's a terrible shame.

The guy is a prick and deserves everything coming, and worse.

[Master Rudy]

Not quite sure how to respond to this. Considering Houndy stole my limelight of randomly throwing stupid shit around everywhere... I REALLY gotta work to outshine that. So... ahem...

"This is all Bush's fault."

*bows*

That is all. Play me off, keyboard cat.

Seriously Blade are you trying to piss someone off? All feelings for or against Bush aside even you've got to admit that it's not like he's the one to have put the gun in his hand. Saying that is like me saying it's Lincoln's fault that Booth shot him since the Union Army fought in the Civil War (despite the Confederates attacking first). That logic also applies to other things:

-Greedo shot first
-Columbine wasn't the fault of the two shooters
-It wasn't Bill's fault he cheated. His shrew of a wife should have been on her knees first
-Obama is a closeted socialist....oh wait......


Last comment aside I hope you get the point. Disagreeing with the war or the President is fine. After all if you live in America then that's your right. However as a solider you do not have the right of disobeying an order unless it's something so extremely far off the deep end that you'd be fucked for following it:

General-Private! Push the magic red button! Let's nuke London!
Private-Uh....why sir?
General-For the lulz!
Private-

All and all your better off comparing the Major in this case to Klebold and Harris from Columbine. The retribution is EXTREMELY disportionate to what happened to all three of these psychos. For all you know Blade this guy in the Army was extremely unhinged and looking for a reason for years. To pin it on Bush for the sole purpose of dragging out your hate or inciting a flame war is just dumb and childish ~_~()

[VirtualPlay]

Seriously Blade are you trying to piss someone off? All feelings for or against Bush aside even you've got to admit that it's not like he's the one to have put the gun in his hand. Saying that is like me saying it's Lincoln's fault that Booth shot him since the Union Army fought in the Civil War (despite the Confederates attacking first).

…

All and all your better off comparing the Major in this case to Klebold and Harris from Columbine. The retribution is EXTREMELY disportionate to what happened to all three of these psychos. For all you know Blade this guy in the Army was extremely unhinged and looking for a reason for years. To pin it on Bush for the sole purpose of dragging out your hate or inciting a flame war is just dumb and childish ~_~()

No, the reason he does it is to get this kind of reaction. You're feeding him; if you're so annoyed by his comments stop replying to them.

I do agree with him, though; H_L has taken his limelight of posting the blatantly stupid comments. The only difference is I think she actually believed them in this case.

----------

Now because I hate posting a completely-off-topic post, here are my feelings on it:

I think the stupidest thing people are doing now is assuming this is the work of a terrorist. Throwing blame to the shooter, the army, his friends, etc.…I'm not even sure which is the one to blame, but to call this a terrorist attack is just stupid.

Terrorists do just that: terrorize. Until I read this I had no idea there even WAS a Fort Hood, and so the blow of all the human lives claimed is softened by the fact that it's an unknown place to me. I'm sure that it scares the crap out of people who live down there, and I do feel very sympathetic towards all those directly affected, but to me it just makes me a slight bit more worried that it might happen up here as well.

However, the actual terrorist attack of 9/11 targeted a place well known throughout the country, as well as one with a giant population. It brought the whole country into a new meaning of fear, and one of Bush's best actions during his presidency was that he kept the whole country from breaking down and breaking apart under it. (Note that my wording keeps my position neutral on my opinion of Bush, and it will stay that way in this topic.)

So yeah, that's what I have to say on the whole thing.

Oh and excuse my snarkiness earlier, I've been feeling rather irritable with things and people as of late.

[Telume]

They said now that the guy who did it was a Psychiatrist and that he was Arabic in ancestry. This is just going to add fuel to the whole Arabic = terrorist stereo-type.

[mr_pikachu]

Yeah... as I said before, the immediate reaction of some local radio shows was to demand racial/religious profiling in the military.

From what I understand, this guy showed some clear changes in attitudes and behavior in the months leading to the shooting. Basically, well, he kind of lost it. That's why I, too, disagree with any "OMFG terrorist!!!1!11" cries. Had he really been a terrorist, he wouldn't have gotten a lawyer to try to fight deployment, and he wouldn't have changed his behavior to such an extent that people are now questioning why this surprised anyone. Instead he would have done his utmost to blend into the crowd, avoiding detection, then taking out as many people as possible in a concerted strike.

Side note: When someone says something in quote marks, right after clearly stating that his intention to spout some "stupid shit," the sarcasm should be obvious. No offense, Rudy, but yeah... it's pretty clear that Blade was just looking for a reaction this time.

[Heald]

A Muslim killing American soldiers?

What next, Blade posting stupid shit in hope of a response?

[Dark Scizor]

A Muslim killing American soldiers?

What next, Blade posting stupid shit in hope of a response?

That's a deep burn right there.

[Blademaster]

I go great lengths to take the heat off my little lady.

...Actually that's a lie. I haven't read much of anything in this topic and it took me 40 seconds to type that response. But nonetheless, it IS pretty funny that Rudy thought I was being honest. I protected the girl successfully AND got a couple of chuckles. Mission accomplished.

Now, in the hope of getting things here back on some sort of organized track, let me be the first (possibly) to say that this is actually kinda sad. Terrorists are overzealous religious nutjobs that don't care about anything but pleasing Allah and getting their 72 virgins. This guy was at least trying to fight that religious lunacy. He was devoted to his faith, is all. Not on the Osama level that those guys 8 years ago in the airplanes were. He was just a religious guy that didn't know how to get out of being sent over to kill a shitload of other Muslims, he tried to get out of it legally, he failed, so he cracked and went apeshit on the people making him do it. It's not exactly an uncommon thing to get shell-shocked before getting sent off to war, especially if the war is against a bunch of your own people. And being a psychiatrist doesn't help. You try thinking rationally, religiously, AND realistically and see how long it takes for you to go nuts and climb a tower with a sniper rifle.

[Roy Karrde]

Just wanted to pop in and note a development today, apparently Senator Lieberman has decided to open a Congressional Investigation into if this man was a home grown terrorist.

A senior U.S. senator on Sunday said the shootings at Fort Hood could have been a terrorist attack, and that he would launch a congressional investigation into whether the U.S. military could have prevented it.

Sen. Joe Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut who heads the Senate's Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee, said initial evidence suggested that the alleged shooter, Army Major Nidal Hasan, was a "self-radicalized, home-grown terrorist" who had turned to Islamic extremism while under personal stress.

Mr. Lieberman said that if news reports were true that Mr. Hasan had turned to Islamic extremism, "the murder of these 13 people was a terrorist act and, in fact, it was the most-destructive terrorist act to be committed on American soil since 9/11."

"We don't know enough to say now, but there are very, very strong warning signs here that Dr. Hasan had become an Islamist extremist and, therefore, that this was a terrorist act," Mr. Lieberman added.

The lawmaker said he would begin a Senate investigation aimed at uncovering Mr. Hasan's motives and asking "whether the Army missed warning signs." He also called on the Pentagon to begin an independent investigation to determine whether "warning signs were missed."

Mr. Lieberman said preliminary evidence suggested that Mr. Hasan had denounced the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. "In the U.S. Army, this is not a matter of constitutional freedom of speech," the senator said. "If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance. He should have been gone."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1257..._whats_news_us

Well what better way to find out what happen then thrust the situation in front of a group of congressmen who love the limelight in a election year. At least this is more productive than Major League Baseball hearings or College Football playoff investigations.

[Heald]

This may have more unintended knock-on effects that I doubt most politicians and army heads have bothered to consider, what with everyone trying to capitalise on the limelight and trying to pin the blame on someone.

For example, this will make all Muslims currently serving in the armed forces very uncomfortable. We know most soldiers are prejudiced at the best of times, and now a Muslim has gunned down several of their own on their own soil, anti-Muslim sentiment amongst the armed forces both in the US and in the Middle East is sure to grow greatly. I'm sure many Muslims currently serving will either try to leave or ask their commanders for protection, and it will certainly deter any Muslims from enlisting. Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if some Muslims are singled out and bullied, attacked or even killed in 'friendly fire incidents' as a response to this. And as this anti-Muslim sentiment grows, even more Muslim soldiers serving may choose to follow Hasan's footsteps.

As for the blame game, well, aside from stopping all Muslims from serving, there's not really a lot anyone could have done to stop this.

Otherwise, considering public opinion is already quite restless, what with the military being involved in conflicts that are incredibly unpopular in some parts of the country, how this is handled, by both the politicians and the military, will be very important.

Over here, at least we're not getting this sort of thing, but the Government has outright betrayed our troops and morale amongst our own military is at an all-time low. I can't imagine a situation like this occurring in our closest ally's ranks has helped them out at all, and maybe even starting perpetuating anti-Muslim sentiment in the UK military's ranks too.

[mr_pikachu]

Right now, I'm very glad that Lieberman's not a GOP member, solely because I don't want people to have an actual reason to equate right-wing philosophies with xenophobia.

Way to overreact and generate discord in our armed forces, Joe.

[Roy Karrde]

Right now, I'm very glad that Lieberman's not a GOP member, solely because I don't want people to have an actual reason to equate right-wing philosophies with xenophobia.

Way to overreact and generate discord in our armed forces, Joe.

Is it a over reaction though? There were clearly signs that he was becoming a Muslim Extremists if the information over the last few days are true. Not to mention the Government did not further investigate his blog posting. Congress does have a right to look into seeing if the red flags out there are true, and if so why the Army didn't take more proactive steps to get this guy removed.

Granted they should wait till the Army investigation should finish before starting their own, but they are well within their limits of power on this, and really should act on this.

[mr_pikachu]

I can agree that this needs to be explored, but it basically sounds like Lieberman's already decided this was terrorism. Think about how he phrased it:

Mr. Lieberman said that if news reports were true that Mr. Hasan had turned to Islamic extremism, "the murder of these 13 people was a terrorist act and, in fact, it was the most-destructive terrorist act to be committed on American soil since 9/11."

"We don't know enough to say now, but there are very, very strong warning signs here that Dr. Hasan had become an Islamist extremist and, therefore, that this was a terrorist act," Mr. Lieberman added.

In the first paragraph, he basically says that as long as the reports weren't completely wrong, this was terrorism. In the second, he equates any violent act that an extremist might commit to be terrorism.

Does that mean that anyone who has passionate beliefs and commits murder is a terrorist? If a devout Christian kills an employer (who may hold different beliefs), is that terrorism? Our first impression would likely be to say no. Why is Lieberman's impression different for a Muslim?

That's why I'm concerned about this. An honest investigation would be fine, but it seems like the conclusions have been drawn beforehand.

[Roy Karrde]

Deleted my old post for MAJOR news, and put this under the category of "You have GOT to be kidding me"

ABC News: Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact Al Qaida Terrorists, Officials Say

U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.

It is not known whether the intelligence agencies informed the Army that one of its officers was seeking to connect with suspected al Qaeda figures, the officials said.

One senior lawmaker said the CIA had, so far, refused to brief the intelligence committees on what, if any, knowledge they had about Hasan's efforts.

CIA director Leon Panetta and the Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, have been asked by Congress "to preserve" all documents and intelligence files that relate to Hasan, according to the lawmaker.

On Sunday, Senator Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) called for an investigation into whether the Army missed signs as to whether Hasan was an Islamic extremist.

"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have a zero tolerance," Lieberman told Fox News Sunday.

Investigators want to know if Hasan maintained contact with a radical mosque leader from Virginia, Anwar al Awlaki, who now lives in Yemen and runs a web site that promotes jihad around the world against the U.S.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=9030873

Edit: AP: Hospital: Ft. Hood shooting suspect awake, talking

Been a major morning for breaking news on this guy.

Well lets be careful in the wording of that, if a devout Christian kills an employer and uses his Christian beliefs as a excuse to kill his employer then yes that would be terrorism. Just as if a devout Christian were to kill say a Abortion Doctor due to his Christian Beliefs that in and of itself would be terrorism. Does Lieberman thread the line yes, but if the reason he did kill was because of Islamic Extremism, something you can make a case for if the information out there is true, then yes he would be a terrorist.

Although I do belief a more apt description would be "Jihadist"

[Blademaster]

U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.

It is not known whether the intelligence agencies informed the Army that one of its officers was seeking to connect with suspected al Qaeda figures, the officials said.

[mr_pikachu]

And suddenly Lieberman looks like a genius. Well played, Joe. Well played.

Sooooooo... how soon before Hasan joins the Guantanamo gang?

[Heald]

He won't be sent to Guantanamo. He isn't an enemy combatant, just a fucking idiot. He'll either be tried as a soldier, court-marshalled, then executed, or tried as a civilian, sentenced to death, then executed.

[Master Rudy]

Boy if this al Qaeda connection turns out to be accurate then we're going to have a far more pissed off people demanding answers than we already have right now :-/

[mr_pikachu]

You're assuming it'll be reported in the media, Rudy.

...You're also assuming that the American public pays attention to the news instead of Desperate Housewives.

[Master Rudy]

You're assuming it'll be reported in the media, Rudy.

...You're also assuming that the American public pays attention to the news instead of Desperate Housewives.

Point taken and noted. Should have thought about that in the first place. There's plenty that the govenment won't tell you in regards to matters like this. If the public knew everything they'd be scared shitless.

[Roy Karrde]

Well looks like the family now has a lawsuit, Walter Reed Officials are saying they thought Hasan may have been a nut job since last year.

Starting in the spring of 2008, key officials from Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences held a series of meetings and conversations, in part about Maj. Nidal Hasan, the man accused of killing 13 people and wounding dozens of others last week during a shooting spree at Fort Hood. One of the questions they pondered: Was Hasan psychotic?

"Put it this way," says one official familiar with the conversations that took place. "Everybody felt that if you were deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, you would not want Nidal Hasan in your foxhole."

Starting in the spring of 2008, key officials from Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences held a series of meetings and conversations, in part about Maj. Nidal Hasan, the man accused of killing 13 people and wounding dozens of others last week during a shooting spree at Fort Hood. One of the questions they pondered: Was Hasan psychotic?

"Put it this way," says one official familiar with the conversations that took place. "Everybody felt that if you were deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, you would not want Nidal Hasan in your foxhole."

Both fellow students and faculty were deeply troubled by Hasan's behavior — which they variously called disconnected, aloof, paranoid, belligerent, and schizoid. The officials say he antagonized some students and faculty by espousing what they perceived to be extremist Islamic views. His supervisors at Walter Reed had even reprimanded him for telling at least one patient that "Islam can save your soul."

One official involved in the conversations had reportedly told colleagues that he worried that if Hasan deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, he might leak secret military information to Islamic extremists. Another official reportedly wondered aloud to colleagues whether Hasan might be capable of committing fratricide, like the Muslim U.S. Army sergeant who, in 2003, killed two fellow soldiers and injured 14 others by setting off grenades at a base in Kuwait.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=120313570

[toucheiruka]

and I thought the people on my ship were crazy....

I watched this when I was at sea, and I was thankful he wasn't on my ship, I would have nowhere to go if he went on a rampage...

[mr_pikachu]

Man. I disagree with this thread's title now, because it seems like Hasan was off his rocker long before this.

"We asked him pointedly, 'Nidal, do you consider Shari'a law to transcend the Constitution of the United States?' And he said, 'Yes,' " a classmate told TIME on Monday. "We asked him if homicidal bombers were rewarded for their acts with 72 virgins in heaven and he responded, 'I've done the research - yes.' Those are comments he made in front of the class." But such statements apparently didn't trigger an inquiry. "I was astounded and went to multiple faculty and asked why he was even in the Army," the officer said. "Political correctness squelched any opportunity to confront him."

Investigators have asked at least one classmate why he didn't file a formal complaint if he was upset by Hasan's comments. "I said, 'Sir, why should I have to when the faculty heard all of these things firsthand?' " the classmate says. "We shouldn't have had to say anything because these were all classroom assignments." Army and medical-school officials declined to comment on the allegations, citing the probe into the killings.

And then there were concerns raised by the political beliefs that Hasan espoused. "He wore his rigid Islam ideology on his sleeve and weaved it throughout his coursework," says the third classmate. "He would be standing there in uniform pledging allegiance to the Koran."

The third classmate says he witnessed at least three oral presentations by Hasan over the course of a year that focused on the morality of Muslims, war and justification for suicide bombers. "People were giving presentations on air quality or water quality, but he'd be full of psychobabble about how the persecution of Muslims justifies suicide bombers," the officer says. After a while, Hasan's classmates "would just roll our eyes saying, 'Here we go again.' "

Here we go again, indeed.

[mr_pikachu]

Update: Fort Hood suspect charged with attempted murder.

This makes the indictment total 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.

The attempted murder charges may not matter in the end, as premeditated murder alone carries the death penalty. (However, authorities haven't yet announced whether or not they'll be seeking capital punishment for those 13 counts.)