2008 U.S. Presidential Election - Primaries

[mr_pikachu]

With Super Tuesday (February 5th) fast approaching, I figured it was time we had a topic to discuss this all-important nomination process.

Both the Republican and Democratic sides are engaging in heated battles for the top spot in their parties. Now that Fred Thompson has officially thrown in the towel, the main Republican hopefuls appear to be John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee. According to the delegate scorecard on CNN.com, the former two candidates split wins in Nevada and South Carolina on the 19th, and both will be looking to carry the momentum into the critical Florida primary on the 29th. Following a fast start in Iowa, Huckabee has fallen back with no more than five delegates won from any state since.

While he led the national polls for awhile, declining to campaign in many of the first several states appears to have been a critical blunder for Rudy Giuliani. RealClearPolitics (which, in my opinion, is one of the very few sites that actually tries to be somewhat impartial) now shows McCain leading the party nationally by anywhere from 4% to 14%. While Ron Paul has campaigned more, his message has not resonated with voters and he has accumulated only six delegates. Unless Huckabee (29 delegates) or Giuliani (2 delegates) can pick up the pace quickly, this could become a two-man race between McCain (38 delegates) and Romney (73 delegates).

The Democratic race is already much clearer, which only three candidates appearing to have any semblance of a chance. The two leaders, Hillary Clinton (218 delegates) and Barack Obama (127 delegates) currently hold an advantage over John Edwards (53 delegates). Following Obama's nine-point win in Iowa, Clinton has garnered more votes in New Hampshire and Nevada (but has earned fewer delegates in each state). With Michigan and Florida penalized for holding their primaries early, South Carolina's 45 delegates are the last at risk before Super Tuesday.

Despite currently holding the lead in estimated delegates, the shaky Clinton campaign may need help regaining its footing. A solid win on Saturday could help her do just that. A big win for Obama, however, could swing the national polls in his favor. Edwards is also looking for a score tomorrow; too many further losses could force him out of the race early.

So what do you think? What do you think about my analysis and that of other, slightly more famous political commentators? Who has the best chance to move on and make the big November contest? And who will you be voting for in the coming rounds (or, if you can't vote, who would you support)? This is your chance to speak up, so let your voice be heard!

[Roy Karrde]

I have to say, and with all Political opinion aside, the Democrats are looking like a blood bath right now. While it sure is entertaining to watch the debates in which Hillary and Obama really tear eachother apart. The Republicans are kind of going slow and civilized while Obama pretty much calls Hillary a whore for Wal Mart, and Hillary calls Obama a slimy bastard.

What I do find interesting is that I cannot really remember a blood bath like this ever in American Politics. And when you add Race and Sex to it, I have to wonder if one or the other will go third party and believe they can win the White House that way if they lose the nomination.

Either way, it is shaping up that both parties will have their first showdown in August at the Convention. Something that hasn't happened since like the 60s.

[Heald]

As a non-American, my opinion means little, but I'll offer some points to consider.

First of all, it is now less than a year until the worst president in the history of America (at least according to the international community and not white right-wing Christian nutjobs) makes his exit, so I guess that is one good thing that will happen this time next year.

Out of the Democrats, I'd really like to see Edwards as president, even though at the moment it seems extremely unlikely. The Democrats are desperate to make history by either having the first black or female president. It seems that the Democrat voters are voting more on race and sex than issues, as Roy Karrde says. That's why I like Edwards: he takes the bullshit out of it.

The Republicans are a different bag altogether. The only real serious candidates are Giuliani, Huckabee, McCain and Romney. From what I have seen from Huckabee and Romney, in my opinion they are both completely nuts and absolutely unelectable. They're both right-wing religious overzealous nutjobs. They're both hypocrites, and, most importantly, they're both more intelligent yet crazier than Bush. If at the end of 2008, either Huckabee or Romney were elected as President, I'd start building a bomb shelter, because having someone as crazy as either as those two in charge of the world's most powerful armed forces will lead to disaster.

McCain is the most level-headed out of the hardcore Republican candidates, but at 71, he is really too old to be President. The role of President takes its toll, and it really will be a trial.

I guess Giuliani would be my favourite out of the Republicans: at least, unlike Romney or Huckabee, he is motivated more by common sense than the religious right and he recognises the changing perspectives of the world. For example, Romney and Huckabee believe 'God hates fags' and believe in the outrageous and ludicrious theory of creationism, whereas Giuliani recognises that the LGBT demographic is important and is willing to accommodate their beliefs, instead of shunning them as freaks and outsiders.

[Clark]

Switzerland - Swiss Cheese.
I see nothing out of any of these candidates, I'll probably be more inclined to vote Republican. I will never vote for a black or a woman. Especially Hussein or Clinton.
Rudy is complete trash.
My vote would go to McCain or Paul. Though if Edwards manages to pull it off, he'll nab my vote, since the majority of the Republicans are completely idiotic.

[Roy Karrde]

Heald you mind telling me where you believe that Romney is part of the Religous Right. I mean you do know he is a Morman, which means the Christian Right does not want anything to do with him. As for being a right-wing religious overzealous nutjobs. He has done his best to make sure to take his religon out of the debate, since that was a major issue originally.

While he doesn't support Gay Marriage ( Something I disagree with him with ). His previous actions certainly show that he doesn't believe Gays are evil or anything like that.

And I do have to disagree with you in that McCain is the most level headed one. I mean especially when he was caught singing "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

One thing I would like to bring up, and I am not sure if you know about this Heald. Is that the two major defining issues in the US right now are Illegal Immigration, and the Economy. All the Republicans except McCain has come out in support of stopping Illegal Immigration, and Rudy and Romney have proven to have past experience working with turning around economies. The three Democrat front runners, Edwards, Clinton, and Obama. Neither have the economic experience, and have supported some form of Amnesty.

So how do you, or anyone else that wants to respond, believe that the Democrat Nominee will combat Romney or Guiliani's years of experience with the economy?

[mr_pikachu]

Okay, I've given my technical analysis; now for my personal opinions.

This is an odd year, because while I lean a little to the right (more on economic than social policy), I'm actually very hesitant about many of the Republican candidates. Huckabee's done everything he can to avoid talking about the issues during the debates - the "I did this" evasion gets old after the first eight times. Ron Paul seems outright nuts to me in more ways than one, and it's irrelevant since he's not getting the nomination anyway. Giuliani might be a good choice if he actually had a snowball's chance of winning. McCain's a strange choice, because while I agree with most of his calls on the war, in everything else he's basically a Democrat. That leaves Romney as the only decent choice for me.

The other side is simpler. Hillary outright scares me, and Edwards seems way too conniving somehow. I don't agree with many of Obama's positions, but at least he seems like he has some semblance of honor. That's more than I can say for many of the Republicans, really.

This leaves an interesting series of potential choices come November. Should Hillary or Edwards get the Democratic nod, I'll vote for anyone who opposes them (except maybe Paul). But if Obama wins it, my final vote depends on who he's facing. If it's Romney, I'll stick with him. Paul would probably prompt a Democratic vote, and even Huckabee might do the same. I'm unsure about McCain and Giuliani at this point, too.

Gotta love scenario politics. It's like watching a baseball playoff race.


EDIT: Roy, let me remind you that Hillary's claiming to have 35 years of experience in politics. Enough said.

[Roy Karrde]

EDIT: Roy, let me remind you that Hillary's claiming to have 35 years of experience in politics. Enough said.

You do bring up a good point, she does rely on saying she has 35 years of experience. Although really I am shocked that Obama hasn't called her out on it, saying that 8 of her years were focused around decorating the white house, attending rubber chicken dinners, and visiting heads of state. And the next 6 years she was a unremarkable Senator who really has done nothing special.

[mr_pikachu]

I think he's hesitant to call her on it because he doesn't have an expanse of experience either. Besides, she's doing a good enough job of damaging herself right now. Changing the subject like that would distract voters from her self-destruction. She was supposed to be virtually unchallenged at this point, after all... the biggest reason she's in a fight is herself. Why give her a way out?

As it stands right now, both of them know that calling the other one out will result in a damaging counterattack. That leaves them with a natural stalemate. But we might see ads on the experience subject around the 3rd or so, for obvious reasons.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Although Hillary visited my high school recently and that softened up my opinion of her, I still think that she's become the Democratic Bush and really, the last thing the country needs is another divisive president, even if IMO Hillary's on the right side of the divide. Edwards is more liberal and closer to my own views, and plus Edwards isn't the kind of candidate who you either vehemently support or emphatically oppose. Plus, his ideas for health care and education are really what the Democratic Party should be all about, but unfortunately that doesn't draw the press as well. Add to that the fact that Edwards boycotts Fox News and you have the perfect candidate for me to vote for. Obama's a good guy, I can't deny that he's charismatic, but his short stint in the Senate is not nearly enough experience in national politics for him to be a viable option. And as for the Republicans, well, everybody knows my opinion of conservatives. Huckabee's a joke who's opinions are laughable and his only press comes from Chuck Norris and Colbert, Thompson should've just stuck to Law and Order where I only thought of him as a minor douchebag, Paul is just a retard who advocates returning the US to cerca 1912, because nothing important has happened since then. If I had to vote for a Republican, I'd go with Romney, as disturbing as that seems, because Giuliani's foreign policy stances scare the shit out of me.

[Katie]

This is the first presidential election I've ever paid any "real" attention to (cuz I can actually vote in it ) and I'm kind of stumped on who I support.


I liked Bill, but I'm not sure if I like Hillary. I keep seeing all this "oh god, Hillary will be the death of us all" but I have yet to see anyone back this up with anything, really. Then again the place where I keep seeing that is mostly Facebook so whatever.

I like Obama, I agree with him on most every hot-button issue, but I've got no clue how his "lack of experience" will affect things. I think it's terrible that this guy will probably lose a lot of support due to so many people being naive and judgmental based on his goddamn name, of all things. My boyfriend swore up and down Obama was Muslim before I showed him like 10 sources that said otherwise.

Edwards is alright. I agree with less stuff with him than the other two Dems, but it's still a hell of a lot more than with any Republican. He doesn't have as great a chance as the others either, so I haven't given him much thought. I should though.


Out of the Republicans I keep flipping between Romney, McCain, and Giuliani but everytime I do I get so frustrated because I hate them all equally. Huckabee is a chump, Paul is just weird and stupid, and if Thompson magically gets it I'm packing up and leaving.


So... long story short I like Obama, but if Clinton or Edwards get the nom I'll still vote for them.


Also, here're some links that are fun to see who you most agree with. They shouldn't be taken as your only research before voting by any means, but they're still kind of neat:
http://www.electoralcompass.com/
http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460

[Blademaster]

My vote goes to the cheese. It's very qualified.

[Dark-San]

I am an official outsider, hence a no- say to whichever the choice the Americans made to be their next president. However from the way I looked at it, it is pretty cool to have your next president, making history as in being the first African American or woman to be swore in. After all, either way whether it swings towards Obama or Clinton, it still lives up America policy on freedom.

A point to note that you do not choose your next leader based on his experience or charisma. It is more based on how he/she tackles the increasing number of problems in which the strongest nation is now facing. First what they have to do is to deal with the sub- mortgage crisis. Your country's state of economy affects the performance of other foreign markets. And when US does goes into recession, the whole world's economic situation really flops over.

For now, Singapore's stock market took a slight dip. We are kind of fortunate since we are cushioned by China's boom. If happens, preferably choose your next president that has the power to push for economic reforms that could propels much boost not just the US market but also Asia's.

[Roy Karrde]

Well Obama has won South Carolina, or atleast that is what Fox News is reporting. Hillary and Edwards is still up in the air though.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Super Tuesday is the day before my birthday! I know I'm not yet legal to vote, but if I was, I just wouldn't know who to vote for...there are SO many!

Obama kinda...bothers me. He's a flip flopper with not much to say, John is basic, and Hilary is a woman. I kinda like Huckabee, with his running mate as Colbert, right? ^-^ Roooar, maybe Mike will get to sick to rule after he gets elected. XD What an unfortunet last name...hucking a bee!

-gives a sigh-

Hmm, hmmm....

Oh! Yes, Obama seems to be dominating. John Titor will strike out again?

[mr_pikachu]

Obama wins in SC, regaining momentum

With an extraordinarily huge victory, Barack Obama has taken back a measure of control over the Democratic race and now looks like a daunting foe for Clinton on Super Tuesday.

I think one particular statistic is important for both parties:

The exit polls showed the economy was the most important issue in the race. About one quarter picked health care. And only one in five said it was the war in Iraq, underscoring the extent to which the once-dominant issue has faded in the face of financial concerns.

If the war in Iraq is no longer an important issue on the left side of the aisle, that could spell trouble for the Democrats. That has been a sort of rallying point for the party over the past few years; if they no longer have that driving force to motivate voters, the general election could be quite difficult.

[Roy Karrde]

If the war in Iraq is no longer an important issue on the left side of the aisle, that could spell trouble for the Democrats. That has been a sort of rallying point for the party over the past few years; if they no longer have that driving force to motivate voters, the general election could be quite difficult.

The war in Iraq has stopped being a issue ever since around October, when good news started drifting out of Iraq and news stories could no longer deny that the surge was working and Iraq was stabalizing, people stopped caring about it.

One thing I am surprised about that poll is that usually Illegal Immigration takes a first or second place vote as the most important issue, up there with the economy. I guess South Carolina is far enough away from the border not to be truely effected by it.

[mr_pikachu]

One thing I am surprised about that poll is that usually Illegal Immigration takes a first or second place vote as the most important issue, up there with the economy. I guess South Carolina is far enough away from the border not to be truely effected by it.

You make a good point, but keep in mind that illegal immigration is more of a Republican issue than a Democratic one. On the left side, it isn't viewed as nearly as much of a problem as it is on the right.

[firepokemon]

Being a New Zealander I've been watching Fox News. While we have CNN and BBC they're just so boring to listen to so I prefer Fox News. Our national broadcaster has their correspondent in the United States while their competitor is having ABC and CBS news items on the election. Thus my news gathering is limited and am too busy to read newspapers.

But I like Clinton, I think she would be good for the international community and I just see Obama as representing one of those figures in Frank Capra films of the 1940s such as "Meet John Doe", who rally the crowds but ultimately ends up just like any of them. John Edwards is a fool.

On the republican side, I don't get Huckabee, in NZ he wouldn't stand a chance, like any other religious person. We don't like religion in politics. I couldn't even tell you what this guy stands for it isn't very clear. Romney could win the republican party nominee, but I don't like him. Hes taken the ultimate u-turn and I don't think he is electable. Guliani was so arrogant when he first announced hes going for the Presidency, his failure to even get third placements in the early primaries is really pathetic and I love John McCain.

Which, is funny because McCain is in favour of the war but I think hes principled far beyond any other republican candidate.

So we have a Clinton V McCain President race, I want Clinton to win, I think she is winnable even though she has so many negatives against her.

I don't get why Obama continues to be treated so well in the media, he is getting a free ride, I see him continuing to get a free ride, and like I said earlier, hes like those 40s era films where they feared facism, where a normal person rallys the people but then has facist tendencies, hes a good talker, but is he trustworthy? I just don't think so.

Watching Fox News is funny because they say their fair and balanced, but everything from Fox and Friends to the Big Story, Bill O'reily, Hannity and Colmes has negative things about Clinton and Hannity may pretend to like McCain but his real venom does show. They also tend to be way too simplistic in some of their analogy but its watchable, I can't stand the thing yet I watch it constantly.

I look to McCain picking up the major primary votes Feb 5th and the same for Clinton. But to be honest I don't totally get America's primary contests.

In the democratic primaries how are they distributed, and are some primaries both democratic and republic distributed by certain areas in america's state. I suppose I could look it up but whatever.

Karrde is illegal immigration even a republican issue anymore? It seems to be republican issues are the economy and Hilary Clinton. It won't even be a national issue I don't think.

[Roy Karrde]

Karrde is illegal immigration even a republican issue anymore? It seems to be republican issues are the economy and Hilary Clinton. It won't even be a national issue I don't think.

Illegal Immigration ranks as Number 2 on the Republican issues. I guess I forgot that there would be two reasons why it would be a Democrat Issue. A: Most Democrats live in the North where Illegal Immigrants is just starting to reach them. B: Democrats are hoping to legalize a majority of the Illegal Immigrants in hopes that they will vote Democrat. Which is why things like a Boarder Fence, and Voter ID cards which would curb Illegal voting, are met with stiff opposition by the Democrats.

Also I think you underestimate the hatred for Hillary Clinton. She gets over 50% in the negatives and that is before the Republicans remind the nation of what it was really like during the Clinton Administration.

In other words, if Hillary were nominated, for every Democrat that comes to vote for her ( And dont count on the Black Vote, the biggest vote for Democrats ). You will get atleast 2 Republicans to vote for her.

[Blademaster]

I find it amusing that the cheese is winning the poll so far. Go, cheese.

[firepokemon]

I've been watching Fox News for a few weeks now and they are not mentioning immigration. Romney prior to the Michagan primary was talking up immigration since then it hasn't been an issue. Immigration is not a big topic anymore.

The blacks will go back to the Clintons I'm quite sure of that and I think Clinton is quite capable of winning the whitehouse particularly if Romney is the nominee. Since if we go by the polls Guliani is out.

[Roy Karrde]

I've been watching Fox News for a few weeks now and they are not mentioning immigration. Romney prior to the Michagan primary was talking up immigration since then it hasn't been an issue. Immigration is not a big topic anymore.

I take it you havn't watched the Republican Debates then? It was brought up quite a few times during the Florida Debates.

The blacks will go back to the Clintons I'm quite sure of that and I think Clinton is quite capable of winning the whitehouse particularly if Romney is the nominee. Since if we go by the polls Guliani is out.

Why do you think Romney would lose against Clinton? He speaks the right talk about Illegal Immigrants, and he has the experience on the Economy. Two things that Clinton is lacking right now. As for the blacks, remember that if she wins, she will have taken away the chance of the first Black Cannidate to really have a chance to win the White House. Not to mention the way Clinton acts to Obama is making Blacks see what Republicans have seen for years. That she is a sleezy, evil, manipulative bitch!

[Jeff]

So Super Tuesday is Feb. 5th? Maryland's primary isn't until the 12th, it's like we're showing up late to the party. So I'll be voting after "America has decided", I might as well write in Swiss Cheese, especially now that Giulilani doesn't seem to stand a chance anymore. As for the democrats, all I have to say is that I'm glad I'm registered as a republican, that way I don't have to pick any of them, they all scare me. If I was a registered democrat, I'd either stay home or vote for Swiss Cheese.

There is another reason for me to be voting in the primary though. The whole state's been keeping its eyes on our District 1 Republican primary race for Congress, which happens to be my district. The basic overview of the race is that incumbent Wayne Gilchrest has been accused of being "too liberal" and has been challenged by State Senator Andy Harris, who's mostly a social conservative, and State Senator E.J. Pipkin, who's mostly a fiscal conservative. My take on the race is that given our governor's recent tax hikes including an increase in the sales tax from 5% to 6% (being a cashier, I get to hear about that one alot ), Pipkin's fiscal conservatism and the fact that he viciously opposed said tax hikes will help him in the race. At least that's what I hope since that's who I'm supporting.

[Dark Scizor]

If only I had the Apocalypse '08 picture I believe Heald had back in 2004.

I'd be more inclined to make a serious post if I actually knew much about American politics and knew each of the candidates and their policies. Alas, I don't know much about american politics, this years candidates or what they're on about. I really couldn't give a gyp at the moment.

[Heald]

I actually made this image in '04. Haha.



To be honest, all the Republicans but Giuliani are unelectable. Huckabee and Romney are completely out-of-touch (Romney greets Black people by singing Who Let The Dogs Out). Hell, I like McCain. I like the fact he isn't afraid to take a stand against some of the grassroots Conservative issues, but he is really, really old. I liked him in his various appearances on the Daily Show, but you can't rule over the world's biggest superpower when you're 71 (or 72 if he actually took office).

On the other hand, I don't mind any of the Democrat candidates. Barack is slightly young and inexperienced, but people thought that of JFK when he was running for presidency. There is also a parallel that some Americans are wary for Obama because he's black, whereas people were wary of JFK because he was Catholic, yet in the end, JFK's unexpectedly short presidency is looked upon favourably in retrospect.

I'm not Clinton's biggest fan, but I don't by the Republican propaganda, mainly because it is unsubstantiated and just childish (ranging from Hillary = Communism to Hillary = France). She may not be that experienced, but she does have the benefit of witnessing one of the best Presidents of the latter-half of the 20th century in action. Bill Clinton's expertise that Hillary can and will draw from is something that could benefit America and the international community again, and to be honest, I would have preferred 16 years of Bill rather than 8 of Bill and 8 of Dubya. Despite the Republican propaganda, Bill did a good job, and no matter what the idiotic claims I've seen in this thread and other threads regarding politics, the most die-hard of conservative nutjobs cannot deny that his presidency was a good thing, whereas the current president will go down in the history books as one of the worst presidents America has ever had.

I would really like to see Obama win it too. He may be young, but he is bringing young voters and black people who would otherwise not vote back to the table.

[Roy Karrde]

To be honest, all the Republicans but Giuliani are unelectable. Huckabee and Romney are completely out-of-touch

You know what is funny? That that is exactly what Republicans are saying about Democrats. That Hillary and Obama are completely unelectable and that both are out of touch on issues like the Economy and Illegal Immigration.

I'm not Clinton's biggest fan, but I don't by the Republican propaganda, mainly because it is unsubstantiated and just childish

I heard about this article on the radio coming in this morning, its a pretty good read from a very liberal editor.

Is the right right on the Clintons

[Heald]

You know what is funny? That that is exactly what Republicans are saying about Democrats. That Hillary and Obama are completely unelectable and that both are out of touch on issues like the Economy and Illegal Immigration.

I'm not sure about illegal immigration, but having liberal views on the economy does not make them out of touch. It is pledging stupid publicity stunt promises to idiots such as the Americans for Tax Reform group that makes people out of touch on the economy.

I heard about this article on the radio coming in this morning, its a pretty good read from a very liberal editor.

Is the right right on the Clintons

It's a good read, but it doesn't really change much. Here in Britain, all politicians do is lie and insult each other. We're nearly as corrupt as the Italians. A little name-calling and fibbing is more of a character issue rather than whether someone makes a good president.

[Roy Karrde]

I'm not sure about illegal immigration, but having liberal views on the economy does not make them out of touch. It is pledging stupid publicity stunt promises to idiots such as the Americans for Tax Reform group that makes people out of touch on the economy.

Sorry I misphrased that. Basically I mean that the Democrats do not have any experience when it comes to the economy. Obama, Clinton, and Edwards have never run a company or city or even a state. They just do not have the experience when it comes to how to manage a economy unlike say Rudy or Romney.

It's a good read, but it doesn't really change much. Here in Britain, all politicians do is lie and insult each other. We're nearly as corrupt as the Italians. A little name-calling and fibbing is more of a character issue rather than whether someone makes a good president.

We're used to lying here, but not insulting eachother. The Clintons have perfected the method of being sleezy scum bags when it comes to elections. Republicans have known it for years becuase we have been on the recieving end of their underhanded tactics. Many Democrats like to dismiss it or forget about it, but now that the Clintons have turned their ways onto other Democrats. Democrats are starting to wake up and go "Hey, maybe the Republicans were right when it comes to the Clintons."

[Heald]

Sorry I misphrased that. Basically I mean that the Democrats do not have any experience when it comes to the economy. Obama, Clinton, and Edwards have never run a company or city or even a state. They just do not have the experience when it comes to how to manage a economy unlike say Rudy or Romney.

I'd agree with you there. That's why I like Rudy.

We're used to lying here, but not insulting eachother. The Clintons have perfected the method of being sleezy scum bags when it comes to elections. Republicans have known it for years becuase we have been on the recieving end of their underhanded tactics. Many Democrats like to dismiss it or forget about it, but now that the Clintons have turned their ways onto other Democrats. Democrats are starting to wake up and go "Hey, maybe the Republicans were right when it comes to the Clintons."

True, the Clintons are sleazy, but people buy into that. They get free publicity for doing jack-all. Look at Bill; he got a blowjob and got loads of free publicity!

[Roy Karrde]

True, the Clintons are sleazy, but people buy into that. They get free publicity for doing jack-all. Look at Bill; he got a blowjob and got loads of free publicity!

I think people buy into it when it is being done to people that are of the different idiological spectrum. Yet when they start doing it to their own then people start to see it as underhanded tactics. Which is why I seriously do not see the Black vote coming out for Hillary in this election. If her sleezy tactics take the election away from possibly the first Black President, people will just not turn out in mass to vote for some one who has instructed her groups to leak questions about Obama being a drug dealer.

[Toxicity]

As a Floridian, I'll admit that I'm still unsure of my political stance in this race.

My issue with this race is that I want somebody who can prove that he can get the job done with the current state of Congress, yet at the same time is likable in the eyes of a good majority of Americans; I saw the potential in Fred Thompson (not to be confused with the evil Jack Thompson), but sadly he's officially dropping the candidacy. After hearing that, I held onto the next candidate I'd choose - Obama.

He may not be well-seasoned as Hillary has stated her entire candidacy, but I see that he voices his opinions well enough to motivate people to get out to the polls; the opinions seem to reflect the ideal interests of many voters, first time or voting for years. Of course, these opinions may stand as weak in comparison to candidates of a different nature, but I'd see him as open minded enough to change for the better. That, in my opinion, would help him if he ran in 2012 or 2016 for that matter.

But then I have to remember; I'm in Florida - any votes towards the Democratic Party will not count for the Primary. So were I to vote for a candidate, I'll be forced to think ahead. And from the consideration of Florida receiving the early vote, it may be too soon to vote for the Republican candidate who would easily be elected over Hillary or Edwards; or, rather, who'd give Obama an easy chance.

I'll just vote Obama irregardless and have it not count. There's always November.

[Roy Karrde]

You know Toxicity, even though it isnt counting toward the primary, your vote for Obama could still do alot of damage. Hillary is the only one campeigning in Florida so she is expected to win easily, if the anti Hillary vote continues and she loses Florida. Even though it wouldnt give Obama any primary votes, it would still be big news, and put a major dent in Hillary's campeign. So yeah your vote still matters.

[mr_pikachu]

You know Toxicity, even though it isnt counting toward the primary, your vote for Obama could still do alot of damage. Hillary is the only one campeigning in Florida so she is expected to win easily, if the anti Hillary vote continues and she loses Florida. Even though it wouldnt give Obama any primary votes, it would still be big news, and put a major dent in Hillary's campeign. So yeah your vote still matters.

That's a strong argument in theory; unfortunately, I doubt very many people will be looking that far ahead. The only way I can see Hillary losing Florida is if she stirs up enough fuss with her "give them back their delegates" argument. If it starts to look like Florida will indeed be counted, then Obama voters may head to the polls and she may end up with a loss. Otherwise, I think the minimal turnout we see will be the diehard pro-Hillary, anti-everyone else people.

Still, it would be funny and crippling. Can't deny that.

[Toxicity]

Now that you mention it, the results could still be a screamer to the Super Tuesday states to vote for a certain candidate.

Although if what mr_pikachu says about all for Hillary is true, I must be missing something in what I've seen in my drives throughout the state. I've only seen Obama.

[mr_pikachu]

Really? I might be getting faulty information, then. From what I've read and heard, the three main Democratic candidates (Hillary, Obama, and Edwards) all agreed not to campaign in states whose delegates had been disqualified; however, Hillary did so anyway and starting pushing for those delegates to be restored. Is that second part inaccurate? Because if it is, that changes a lot of my analysis.

[Roy Karrde]

I havn't heard anything about the Deligates being restored. Yet I know she has campeigned in *Michigan?* and Florida. Although im Michigan she did really poorly when alot of people voted for anything but her.

[mr_pikachu]

I havn't heard anything about the Deligates being restored. Yet I know she has campeigned in *Michigan?* and Florida. Although im Michigan she did really poorly when alot of people voted for anything but her.

Well, I doubt anyone thinks it'll actually happen. The protest is mostly a show of desperation on her part - ironic, because she's still technically winning the race. (Really gives you some insight into the panic within her campaign, huh? But I digress.) The delegates were DQ'd because of party rules, and I don't think even a Clinton could change that.

On a side note, I like the use of "anything" in your last sentence. They probably wished Swiss cheese was on the ballot.

[RedStarWarrior]

Obama and Huckabee...win-win in my eyes.

[firepokemon]

Roy - You are so out of touch its pathetic, I'm half way round the world from the US and even I know that immigration is no longer the issue that was. Its a republican issue and will not be a national issue, it may be an issue in southern states but those typically go to the Republicans anyway and not democrats. Romney is a fool and like Obama they're going to crash and crash fast. Both could potentially get the nominee but I guarantee you one thing, one or the other will crash and burn. Immigration may well be an issue where you live, but its not a national issue.

As for nobody in the democratic race having economic skills, thats bullshit. Stop believing the crap you're hearing. Thats why you have advisors and good advisors at that. If Clinton gets in, I would not have a worry at all, because she'll have the best team in terms of experience, Obama and Edwards on the other hand. We just don't know who'll they'll bring in. More importantly I would have thought though it isn't an issue either is that Romney doesn't have any foreign policy experience. You going to trust this man with foreign policy? Scary.

-----

Right I want to bring up Clinton. I don't agree with anything the democratic party really says, my thoughts particularly on economic issues are more in line with the republicans. But of course republicans are so conservative and hardly could be called progressive. But I want a Clinton win. Obama has enjoyed nothing but praise and good press, where are the people taking a look at what issues he wants to bring to the table, who are going to be his people in the white house and exactly what does this guy have that is so great? He is bound to burn at some stage. If its not in the democratic primary race, then its the national election, if its not that, it will be as President. Do you really want someone like him in the white house? I would think its scary.

The Clintons are a machine but they've also been manufac tured as some dirty team that enjoys nothing more than dirty politics. Obama is playing the race card and the black community is playing the race car. Clinton was right about his win in South Carolina. 53% of all blacks voted Obama.

And what is with the youth vote in the US? You people are pathetic. Obama will fail, at some stage and you lot will be responsible for that.

As for Rudy Guliani - If Rudy can't analyse the primary process in america, how the fuck is going to run as President? I mean what a fool, if he got third placements in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina and then Michigan and Nevada, he'd be on the news and his poll numbers would be up and he would have won the Florida primary and he would have won Super Tuesday and he'd prolly make it to the whitehouse. But no he couldn't even run a Primary caucus.

And what the fuck is up with Mitt Romney. Hes an abolsute slimeball. If he wins there will be plenty of dirt on him, you can be sure of that. He copies the other republicans and what they say such as his famous Michigan win where I swear he watched Huckabee closely. As for being so rude and arrogant like when he basically pushed McCain aside just so he could celebrate his Michigan win. I mean what a fucking joke. He's a bullshitter a businessman and he would ruin the republican party, I am quite sure of that.

Mike Huckabee is a christian running a godlike campaign, its disgusting and this guy doesn't seem to have any good skills whatsoever. Hes a loser.

John Edwards is another loser and I can't believe some people like Heald likes this guy.

McCain - Now theres someone with conviction, I can't agree with ever going to Iraq it was a stupid mistake that Fox News and all media really liked to propogate until it all went wrong so they decided to go down the other extreme route. If you go into Iraq you really have to stay there, because the last thing anbyone needs is Chaos. And who had the conviction and the know-how even though some republicans were going down the path pulling out troops. McCain. And don't bring up that he wanted an amnesty bill or that he didn't vote for taxes. Thats just bullshit spin from the pathetic far-right, the conservative right. The right side of politics that no other country in the world likes.

So how will the rest of the campaign go.

Whoever wins the republican Florida race will win. If McCain wins, Romney will do well but hes a moron and most americans will find that out. If Romney wins Florida, he will become even more a phoney on his pathetic economic issues (he basically said bullshit to the Michigan people) and with his money theres a good chance he wins but I don't think you can count out McCain.

As for the democratic side. Well I don't get the Clinton hate, I think its bullshit from the extremes of the democratic party. Obama will burn at some stage, you'll regret letting Clinton not wi. But to be honest I think Clinton takes Super Tuesday though with how the delegates work, it'll be a long process but that could be good for Clinton. Because Obama will one day crash.

Oh American politics how absolutely phoney, no wonder the rest of the world can't understand Americans you're so stuck on issues the rest of the world has forgotten.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy - You are so out of touch its pathetic, I'm half way round the world from the US and even I know that immigration is no longer the issue that was.

Is that why it constantly polls in the top 3 - 5 issues for this country? How about getting you stop speaking out of your ass?

it may be an issue in southern states but those typically go to the Republicans anyway and not democrats.

Illegal Immigrants have found their way all the way up to New York, which is why you are seeing so much talk about it, it is a national issue.

Besides if it was just a Republican issue, the Democrats would not have gone on Spansh Television to debate it.

Romney is a fool and like Obama they're going to crash and crash fast. Both could potentially get the nominee but I guarantee you one thing, one or the other will crash and burn.

We will see tonight for Obama.

Immigration may well be an issue where you live, but its not a national issue.

Its also a issue in places like Iowa, Kansas, Florida, New Hampshire...

As for nobody in the democratic race having economic skills, thats bullshit. Stop believing the crap you're hearing. Thats why you have advisors and good advisors at that.

We elect a President, not their advisors. With the way the Economy is right now, we do not want some one who is learning as they go when it comes to the top issue in the US.

If Clinton gets in, I would not have a worry at all, because she'll have the best team in terms of experience, Obama and Edwards on the other hand.

And what experience would she have? Being First Lady is more than a full time job.

More importantly I would have thought though it isn't an issue either is that Romney doesn't have any foreign policy experience. You going to trust this man with foreign policy? Scary.

Seeing how the issue right now is the economy, in which Romney has the most experience next to Guiliani, I think America is a bit more concerned about that.

The Clintons are a machine but they've also been manufac tured as some dirty team that enjoys nothing more than dirty politics. Obama is playing the race card and the black community is playing the race car. Clinton was right about his win in South Carolina. 53% of all blacks voted Obama.

If Clinton is bringing up Blacks then I believe she is playing the race card as a scapegoat. Also I find it halarious you accuse Obama of playing the race card today, while Hillary is going after the Hispanic vote, trying to get them to turn on the Blacks and balance it out.

And what the fuck is up with Mitt Romney. Hes an abolsute slimeball.

I am surprised he isn't your guy then. I mean you know the saying, it takes one to know one. ~.^

If he wins there will be plenty of dirt on him, you can be sure of that.

Compared to the dirt that Hillary has, Romney can run rings around her.

He copies the other republicans and what they say such as his famous Michigan win where I swear he watched Huckabee closely.

Uh huh...

As for being so rude and arrogant like when he basically pushed McCain aside just so he could celebrate his Michigan win.

If you believe that, you should hear some of the phone calls McCain is sending out about Romney. As for his speach coming the same time as McCain's, I seriously doubt there were a bunch of staffers back there going "Hee, lets get McCain and go on now". Everyone was partying and concerned about their win, and the times just sinked up.

He's a bullshitter a businessman

And yet has done amazing jobs as a buisnessman.

and he would ruin the republican party, I am quite sure of that.

Sorry you must be talking about McCain and accidently put it in the Romney stuff.

And don't bring up that he wanted an amnesty bill or that he didn't vote for taxes.

And yet it is the truth, he did bring about a amnesty bill and tried to railroad it through the Congress. The American people then spoke up and said they did not want it.