Osama bin Laden killed

[Roy Karrde]

Now, let me make a statement to Roy.

Right now Roy, you bugged out with that statement. No 3000 does not equal 1. But for those families, that one grew to encapsulate all their rage, fear, hatred and confusion as to WHY someone would do this. If it was just those folks out in the streets, I probably would have been like "Meh-its the folks who have the most reason to care."

But no, it was Johnny McCornball and his College friends slapping each other's asses and dunking on trees and taking photos with Uncle Sam hats like "YEAH WE KILLED OSAMA." They aint do SHIT >_O! Those fucks are the ones that cause drama. Children seeing those folks outside of D.C. and Ground Zero are gonna be confused cause omg we're celebrating a dead bad guy? Pakistanies are gonna see that, and they're not gonna remember how they acted 9 years ago when the towers fell (and for the record, that was not all of Pakistan, that was Al-Qaeda infused cities that were caught cheering, not everyone in Pakistan thought it was the best thing since cable TV, since they got that in 2000). They're gonna be like "Whoa, they're really happy they killed that dude."

Here is the thing, that one, is in no way relatable to the 3,000 that died. That one was a mass murderer, a terrorist, a nut job, one who sought out to kill and harm people. Those 3,000 were innocent, they committed no crime against al Qaeda other than being alive. They were innocent civilians that al Qaeda choose to murder.

As such it is absolutely wrong to link one celebration to another, one celebration is to the end of a mass murderer who has haunted this country for far longer than one decade. The other is to celeberate the death of innocent people who died simply for going to work that morning.

Since we are using WW2 as a example here, it would be like saying Jews celebrating the death of Hitler, is the same as German soldiers celebrating the death of Jews. Those two celeberations are in no way comparable.

To put it simply to say the two are the same is to engage in False Moral Equivalency.

[Dark Sage]

Fine, I take it back. I shouldn't have said "everybody".

I keep forgetting that there are no absolutes in this world, except for the one that says that there are no absolutes.

[DarkestLight]

Here is the thing, that one, is in no way relatable to the 3,000 that died. That one was a mass murderer, a terrorist, a nut job, one who sought out to kill and harm people. Those 3,000 were innocent, they committed no crime against al Qaeda other than being alive. They were innocent civilians that al Qaeda choose to murder.

As such it is absolutely wrong to link one celebration to another, one celebration is to the end of a mass murderer who has haunted this country for far longer than one decade. The other is to celebrate the death of innocent people who died simply for going to work that morning.

Since we are using WW2 as a example here, it would be like saying Jews celebrating the death of Hitler, is the same as German soldiers celebrating the death of Jews. Those two celebrations are in no way comparable.

To put it simply to say the two are the same is to engage in False Moral Equivalency.

If I said earlier that they are the same, than I would be I the collective wrong. I don't believe I said that, but I'm going to explain in a hopefully better way what I mean about the witnessing and meaning of the celebrations and why the celebrations themsevles are similar whereas the reasons why they are celebrating can differ so much.

..It would seem that they are in no way comparable. At least, that would be the case, if there wasn't celebrations in the first place. The reasons the celebrations exist are as different as night and day, but the connective tethers? The One and the 3000...

That 1 made 3000 disappear, and then suddenly, this one is finally eradicated...Its like the Damn genocide of the Jedi by Vader Holy crap its wrong, but there is a balance that needed to be restored. We'll never understand that balance, but its there, and it was shifted back toward equilibrium, if only slightly. For that-there was celebration.

If you'd also take a second outlook...consider the 2001 celebrations in Pakistan. Of seeing a massive power in the world crippled by people that this massive country considered lowly. Made them (Al-Qaeda) feel pretty powerful. They felt balance shift in their favor due to in their anarchy. They shifted the scales of terror to now conclusively include America. Now we finally Tagged Osama. That terror scale is shifted back ever slightly for us.

Case being, we're never gonna get our invulnerability back as far as I can see. Balance is too much on their end...this was a boon but it only raised up a slight bit, May take the gen after the current one growing up now before we might even come close to that impervious mindset again, and raise that scale back to being even (if it ever was even). Therefore the celebrations still come, whenever those scales are moved. That's how they're similar. They celebrate because of the success of an event that the parties consider significant

And uhhh...

Most of the natural world hasn't even HEARD of False Moral Equivalency, and aren't going to think of that when they saw/see people cheering in the streets They didn't then, and they aren't going to start now.


Oh. Thank you for the removal of the absolution Dark Sage.

[Roy Karrde]

It would seem that they are in no way comparable. At least, that would be the case, if there wasn't celebrations in the first place. The reasons the celebrations exist are as differnt as night and day, but the connective tethers? The One and the 3000...

So you admit that the celebrations are not comparable.

If you'd also take a second outlook...consider the 2001 celebrations in Pakistan. Of seeing a massive power in the world crippled by people that this massive country considered lowly. Made them (Al-Qaeda) feel pretty powerful. The felt balance in their anarchy. Shifted the scales of terror to now include America. Now we finally Tagged Osama. That terror scale is shifted back ever slightly for us.

However that imbalance was created in the blood of 3,000 innocent people, while it was shifted back in the blood of one guilty person. They can celebrate America getting a bloody nose, but it is ignorant to ignore how that bloody nose occurred.

Case being, we're never gonna get our invulnerability back as far as I can see. Balance is too much on their end...this was a boon but it only raised up a slight bit, May take the gen after the current one growing up now before we might even come close to that impervious mindset again, and raise that scale back to being even (if it ever was even). Therefore the celebrations still come, whenever those scales are moved. That's how they're similar.

Again it is too simplistic, you need to understand WHY the celeberations are occuring, HOW they are being brought about. One is being brought about by the deaths of thousands of innocent people, the other isn't. Ignoring that, again is a act of False Moral Equivalency

Most of the natural world hasn't even HEARD of False Moral Equivalency, and aren't going to think of that when they saw/see people cheering in the streets They didn't then, and they aren't going to start now.

You do not need to hear of it to know that the celebration of 3,000 innocent people is not comparable to the celebration of 1 guilty person. Such a thing should be just common sense.

[DarkestLight]

So you admit that the celebrations are not comparable.

The words "would seem" does not implicitly state that I believe they're not comparable. Like when you read Shakespeare. You can read a sentence, and you might think it means one thing, but then you delve deeper and see there's more than how you immediately interpreted it. :O


However that imbalance was created in the blood of 3,000 innocent people, while it was shifted back in the blood of one guilty person. They can celebrate America getting a bloody nose, but it is ignorant to ignore how that bloody nose occurred.

Yes, but do the Al-Qaeda Pakistani's know how many people died? Prolly not. Do they care? No. And yeah it may be ignorant, but that's our take on them and their understanding, not theirs.


Again it is too simplistic, you need to understand WHY the celebrations are occurring, HOW they are being brought about. One is being brought about by the deaths of thousands of innocent people, the other isn't. Ignoring that, again is a act of False Moral Equivalency.

No they dont. I doubt the average Pakistani is watching those fools celebrate, and are willing to find information to understand WHY they're in the streets with OSAMA BIN PWNED shirts (Saw one. Shook head in shame)-HOW they could be so happy about one dude dying. One baseline fact is that both celebrations came about because of death :/ Both sides celebrate due to death. Doesn't matter HOW death came to be. Doesn't matter WHY death came about. Death came about-and people celebrated. That's their hardline similarity and even that's fact.

And the scales are not balanced. They've shifted...but we are still at a MASSIVE deficit.

You do not need to hear of it to know that the celebration of 3,000 innocent people is not comparable to the celebration of 1 guilty person. Such a thing should be just common sense.

Tell that to Saudi Arabia when Saddam was hanged. But they danced in the damn streets. They think its comparable. Common sense is not as cut and dry as one would wish. The sense is in direct correlation to human emotion-so common sense can vary.

[Roy Karrde]

The words "would seem" does not implicitly state that I believe they're not comparable. Like when you read Shakespeare. You can read a sentence, and you might think it means one thing, but then you delve deeper and see there's more than how you immediately interpreted it. :O

Except we have delved deeper into it, the only ones able to make such a connection are those that are taking a simplistic view of the events.

Yes, but do the Al-Qaeda Pakistani's know how many people died? Prolly not. Do they care? No. And yeah it may be ignorant, but that's our take on them and their understanding, not theirs.

You can watch the towers burn and realize that thousands would have died.

Hell you could say that even if one innocent person died compared to Osama Bin Laden makes the situation completely dissimilar. The number really has nothing to do with it, the fact that people are comparing celebrations of innocent deaths, to a guilty one is what matters.

No they dont. I doubt the average Pakistani is watching those fools celebrate, and are willing to find information to understand WHY they're in the streets with OSAMA BIN PWNED shirts (Saw one. Shook head in shame)-HOW they could be so happy about one dude dying. One baseline fact is that both celebrations came about because of death :/ Both sides celebrate due to death. Doesn't matter HOW death came to be. Doesn't matter WHY death came about. Death came about-and people celebrated. That's their hardline similarity and even that's fact.

Again that is a simplistic view. As the situations surrounding those deaths MUST be understood if a comparison would be made, if not you are again making a False Moral Equivalency

Are they both celebrating a death? Yes. However the question then must be asked, are both deaths similar? The answer to that is No. One is a mass murderer, the other is thousands of innocent people. That key fact is what separates the two.

Tell that to Saudi Arabia when Saddam was hanged. But they danced in the damn streets. They think its comparable. Common sense is not as cut and dry as one would wish. The sense is in direct correlation to human emotion-so common sense can vary.

There was celebration in Iraq ( Not sure why you think Saudi Arabia would be celebrating ) at Saddam's death, due to the horrors and pain he brought upon innocent people for decades there.

[Dark Sage]

Darkest Light, I should warn you... Roy never lets up until he has the last word. You'll never win.

[Roy Karrde]

Personally I think I made my point beyond that we are going around in circles and I have finals to attend to.