Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 120 of 209

Thread: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

  1. #81
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    come on, prove that the graph is truthful.
    The graph has nothing to do with anything I posted, because why the graph is born out of guessing economic futures, my information was provided by provable economic facts and numbers that came out of those years.

  2. #82
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    where i live
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Conclusion: What is Poverty?
    In 2010, the U.S. Census Bureau declared that one in seven Americans lived “in poverty.” Catholic Charities has declared, “The existence of such widespread poverty amidst such enormous wealth is a moral and social wound in the soul of the country.”

    To the average American, the word “poverty” implies significant material deprivation, an inability to provide a family with adequate nutritious food, reasonable shelter, and clothing. Activists reinforce this view, declaring that being poor in the U.S. means being “unable to obtain the basic material necessities of life.” The news media amplify this idea: Most news stories on poverty feature homeless families, people living in crumbling shacks, or lines of the downtrodden eating in soup kitchens.

    The actual living conditions of America’s poor are far different from these images. In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or PlayStation. In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, a clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker.

    The home of the typical poor family was not overcrowded and was in good repair. The family was able to obtain medical care when needed. By its own report, the family was not hungry and had sufficient funds during the past year to meet all essential needs.

    Poor families clearly struggle to make ends meet, but in most cases, they are struggling to pay for air conditioning and cable TV while putting food on the table. The current recession has increased the number of Americans who are poor, but it does not appear to have greatly reduced the living standards of the average poor family.

    True, the average poor family does not represent every poor family. There is a range of living conditions among the poor. Some poor households fare better than the average household described above. Others are worse off. Although the overwhelming majority of the poor are well housed, at any single point in time during the recession in 2009, around one in 70 poor persons was homeless. Although the majority of poor families have an adequate and reasonably steady supply of food, many worry about keeping food on the table, and one in five experienced temporary food shortages at various times in 2009.

    Those who are without food or homeless will find no comfort in the fact that their condition is relatively infrequent. Their distress is real and a serious concern.
    Nonetheless, wise public policy cannot be based on misinformation or misunderstanding. Anti-poverty policy must be based on an accurate assessment of actual living conditions and the causes of deprivation. In the long term, grossly exaggerating the extent and severity of material deprivation in the U.S. will benefit neither the poor, the economy, nor society as a whole.
    the heritage foundation:

    youve got a colour tv and a coffee machine? not poor, bootstraps your way to a better life. who cares about adequate schools, healthcare, spending time with parents/children etc, you've got a tv!!

  3. #83
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    the heritage foundation:

    youve got a colour tv and a coffee machine? not poor, bootstraps your way to a better life. who cares about adequate schools, healthcare, spending time with parents/children etc, you've got a tv!!
    I see you completely ignore what I was saying about how everything I posted was provable economic numbers, just as you ignore how I proved that the crisis was created by the Democratic party.

  4. #84
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    where i live
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    and exactly, the graph is bullshit.

    is the laffer curve credible, roy?

    as for the democrats created a the crisis that's a load of bullshit and you know it. they played their part but the blame falls squarely on a lot of people. the fed reserve, congress, clinton administration, bush administration, alan greenspan, the real estate agents, mortgage brokers and wall street and a belief that house prices would keep rising forever

    and claiming that one piece of legislation could cause this entire thing is bogus and insane.

  5. #85
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    and exactly, the graph is bullshit.

    is the laffer curve credible, roy?
    That there is a area in which higher taxes decrease revenue, and a area in which lower taxes decrease revenue, and that a adequate middle point should be found? Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    as for the democrats created a the crisis that's a load of bullshit and you know it. they played their part but the blame falls squarely on a lot of people. the fed reserve, congress, clinton administration, bush administration, alan greenspan, the real estate agents, mortgage brokers and wall street and a belief that house prices would keep rising forever
    Which shows your ignorance. Banks were not making these loans until Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac guaranteed them and began to pump out hundreds of billions of dollars in toxic loans each year.

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    and claiming that one piece of legislation could cause this entire thing is bogus and insane.
    It would have stopped the toxic loans at it's source, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, that would have kept the banks from going over which dominoed this entire crisis.

  6. #86
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    where i live
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    seriously, you obviously don't know anything about economics. you've read what the right wing want you to read and lapped it up. i notice how you ignore me just proving it was a combination of many things.

    the fed reserve cut interest rates after dot com crash, credit is cheap. congress supports mortgage tax cut which gives people incentives to buy pricier houses. real estate agents who i'm sure the majority work for sellers rather than buyers earn higher commissions from higher prices. clinton admin because they pushed for less credit/downpayment requirements. mortgage brokers offer subprime adjustable rate loans with low initial repayments followed by massive interest rates. alan greenspan for his comic comments during the housing bubble telling people to take out these mortgages. the bush admin failing to provide oversight to the hugely risky mortgage-backed sec market - wall street firms paying no attention to the quality of loans they bundled into mbs and issued bonds using mbs as collateral. add in the fact that people were deluded enough to believe that house prices would rise and rise forever and youve got one big mess. but feel free to disprove those points

  7. #87
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    seriously, you obviously don't know anything about economics. you've read what the right wing want you to read and lapped it up. i notice how you ignore me just proving it was a combination of many things.
    Says the kiddo who just spent the last few posts ignoring everything I have said.

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    the fed reserve cut interest rates after dot com crash, credit is cheap. congress supports mortgage tax cut which gives people incentives to buy pricier houses. real estate agents who i'm sure the majority work for sellers rather than buyers earn higher commissions from higher prices.
    All of which did not contribute to the toxic mortgages. A housing bubble? Sure that created a mild recession in 2007.

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    clinton admin because they pushed for less credit/downpayment requirements. mortgage brokers offer subprime adjustable rate loans with low initial repayments followed by massive interest rates.
    You do realize those two are the same as the Clinton Administration pushed for the mortgage brokers to offer the subprime mortgages.

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    the bush admin failing to provide oversight to the hugely risky mortgage-backed sec market -
    Would that be this oversight?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

    Or these calls for regulations?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp...eature=related

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    add in the fact that people were deluded enough to believe that house prices would rise and rise forever and youve got one big mess. but feel free to disprove those points
    Again while causing a housing market bubble, did not cause the economic crash.
    Last edited by Roy Karrde; 18th July 2011 at 11:38 PM.

  8. #88
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    where i live
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    notice how he ignores the other points and goes for the democrat attack, republican defend option. do the other ones first please roy.

  9. #89
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    notice how he ignores the other points and goes for the democrat attack, republican defend option. do the other ones first please roy.
    I deconstructed every point I saw that would reasonably lead to the economic crisis and the crap that would only lead to a housing bubble. But please ignore the fact that the Bush Administration warned many times that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would destroy our economy if not effectively regulated. Just as Alan Greenspan said the same thing once we began to realize how large and powerful these GSE's are. Or that the Democrats were spouting the ignorant crap that there was no problem at Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.

    Oh and lets not forget Barnie Frank touting the Democratic line "There is no housing bubble" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qK...eature=related
    Last edited by Roy Karrde; 18th July 2011 at 11:44 PM.

  10. #90
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    where i live
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    calm down roy. maybe you cant deconstruct the other points because you dont know what they mean or what youre talking about? stick to politics but try to watch something other than fox news and reading right-wing thinktank garbage.

  11. #91
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    calm down roy. maybe you cant deconstruct the other points because you dont know what they mean or what youre talking about? stick to politics but try to watch something other than fox news and reading right-wing thinktank garbage.
    There is something funny if not ironic of you calling for me to calm down, and saying I cannot deconstruct points, when you have shifted from argument to argument, losing each one, and earlier on throwing out every single insult you could while I have calmly and rationally beaten you back. If this is how the debate is going to end that is fine with me.

  12. #92
    SW-2628-7394-6108 Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Magmar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri, US
    Posts
    7,382

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Karrde View Post

    So having the best nightly ratings of the three news networks constitutes going down the shitter? Damn I would hate to see where you think MSNBC or CNN is right now.
    Not being debunked left and right, that's where MSNBC and CNN are at... True they screw something up now and then, but it doesn't compare to the crock of shit on Fox. That's where I draw my line Roy. It's pathetic that your defense of Fox news is that it's the most popular. That's like saying because the Boston Red Sox gets the most TV views out of any baseball team, that they are the best team. It's unrelated to the degree of truth. Your argument is some kind of logical fallacy that I'm too lazy to look up and identify. Too bad Fox exaggerates shit and tell loads of lies. I don't see the so-called Liberal-biased media getting torn to shreds by all other media outlets because of their lies and scandals.

    Just for fun! And on the subject biotch of the thread...

    Oh, and here's a fun edit: As a couple of ya'll know, I take the bus, rather than drive. This is a very real issue affecting me right now, in that they are terminating service for most routes on the weekends and past 10 p.m. at night on some days and cutting the one bus line that goes to northwest RI, where most of my family lives. I don't get any bus fare reductions as a graduate student And here I will say Politifact is a little misinformed, as when they talk about the bus rides from Westerly, etc.: There is only one park-n-ride bus in the morning and one in the evening to most of the South County communities, and most of the most distant towns from Providence receive little to no bus service at all. There is no bus to Tiverton or Little Compton, which is not the most distant by straight line but can only be accessed by traveling through Massachusetts; most towns off the Route 1-4-95 north-south corridor only get service in a brief corner of the town; and the entirety of western Rhode Island is serviced by one line that runs 5 times a day (Twice for early morning commute, one afternoon trip, and two evening commute trips). Having to rely on "the 9" sucks.

    Finally, not that anyone wants to hear me rant about RI anymore, but this one is for those who may wonder where in the US the most illegal drug users per capita are... Surprise! 1 in 9 Rhode Islanders are an active drug user, apparently. I haven't read into it enough to state that as hard fact. But it seems about right.
    Last edited by Magmar; 19th July 2011 at 12:04 AM.
    winner of the (a)ncient (2009), (v)intage, (2009), (v)eteran award (2011), (e)veryone wins! (2011),
    (q)ueenly (2012), (y)ara sofia with Oslo (2012), (l)egalized (2014), (d)ream (2015), (a)ctive (2019), and (e)ighth generation unown awards! thanks TPM!

    member since day 1


    #OccupyMtMoon
    TPMNoVA12 ~ Hopes and Dreams ~ Team Birdo
    TPMUK12 ~ Drink the Pounds Away ~ Groceries

    3DS Code: 3325-3072-6715
    GO Code: 1336-7550-2201
    You Are Awesome.


  13. #93
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Magmar View Post
    Not being debunked left and right, that's where MSNBC and CNN are at... True they screw something up now and then, but it doesn't compare to the crock of shit on Fox. That's where I draw my line Roy. It's pathetic that your defense of Fox news is that it's the most popular. That's like saying because the Boston Red Sox gets the most TV views out of any baseball team, that they are the best team. It's unrelated to the degree of truth. Your argument is some kind of logical fallacy that I'm too lazy to look up and identify. Too bad Fox exaggerates shit and tell loads of lies. I don't see the so-called Liberal-biased media getting torn to shreds by all other media outlets because of their lies and scandals.
    Yeah MSNBC... the network with a liberal bias so badly that it eclipses every other news network is not being debunked left and right, except for well you know, places like Newsbusters and such. Then again the left does not eat their own, as such it is much easier to go after Fox, than it is to beat up on MSNBC for it's lies and mis statements.

  14. #94
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    where i live
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    debates usually involve rational thought, all you've done is quote a right-wing thinktank, regurgitate right-wing propaganda and refused to condemn literally anything that the republican party has done. it wasn't a debate it was you floundering to absolve your chosen party of any blame, pretend the laffer curve is credible (lol) and all it's done is make you look like a complete bellend. that's fine with me.

  15. #95
    SW-2628-7394-6108 Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Magmar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri, US
    Posts
    7,382

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Karrde View Post
    Yeah MSNBC... the network with a liberal bias so badly that it eclipses every other news network is not being debunked left and right, except for well you know, places like Newsbusters and such. Then again the left does not eat their own, as such it is much easier to go after Fox, than it is to beat up on MSNBC for it's lies and mis statements.
    Tehe, I rarely quote wikipedia, but this one is good:

    The Project on Excellence in Journalism report in 2006[44] showed that 68 percent of Fox cable stories contained personal opinions, as compared to MSNBC at 27 percent and CNN at 4 percent. The "content analysis" portion of their 2005 report also concluded that "Fox was measurably more one-sided than the other networks, and Fox journalists were more opinionated on the air."[48]
    winner of the (a)ncient (2009), (v)intage, (2009), (v)eteran award (2011), (e)veryone wins! (2011),
    (q)ueenly (2012), (y)ara sofia with Oslo (2012), (l)egalized (2014), (d)ream (2015), (a)ctive (2019), and (e)ighth generation unown awards! thanks TPM!

    member since day 1


    #OccupyMtMoon
    TPMNoVA12 ~ Hopes and Dreams ~ Team Birdo
    TPMUK12 ~ Drink the Pounds Away ~ Groceries

    3DS Code: 3325-3072-6715
    GO Code: 1336-7550-2201
    You Are Awesome.


  16. #96
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Magmar View Post
    Tehe, I rarely quote wikipedia, but this one is good:

    The Project on Excellence in Journalism report in 2006[44] showed that 68 percent of Fox cable stories contained personal opinions, as compared to MSNBC at 27 percent and CNN at 4 percent. The "content analysis" portion of their 2005 report also concluded that "Fox was measurably more one-sided than the other networks, and Fox journalists were more opinionated on the air."[48]
    Curious if that report was put together under the fact that many fox news stories during the day time provide debate from both sides ( The whole fair and balance thing started because of a mandate originally that both sides of the story had to be interviewed when it came to opinions ). Based strictly on the amount of Opinion Talk Shows which liter the evening, and not the strict news shows that take up the day time portion on all three networks. MSNBC has the most of the Bias Opinion Talk Shows, followed by Fox, and then CNN. But that is manly because Fox does a pretty strict news only show at the 6 and 7 time slot before Bill O'Reilly, and then has Gretta which is more of a "Topic of the day" news show, than a Opinion Talk Show at the 10 time slot.

    And Woz, it really is getting to the point that I am feeling sorry for you, you have trolled through most of the thread, now it is getting sad.

  17. #97
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    where i live
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Roy Karrde: Fox News Watcher, Young White Republican, "Studies" Politics, Gets His World Views from Right-Wing Blogs/Thinktanks feels sorry for someone who doesn't do that.

    lmao

    this is too good

  18. #98
    why wub woo Moderator
    Moderator
    Heald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    cloudsdale, equestria
    Posts
    9,031

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    I literally woke up ten minutes after the last post in this thread, after having gone to bed, like, 8 hours before this point now.

    Guys, you're shitting up this thread with MY POLITICS IS BETTER THAN YOUR POLITICS. You've both done nothing but prove one point; you disagree with each other. And congratulations, anyone who wanted to discuss the original topic now no longer wants to/cares.

    If you want to piss on about Democunts or Republitards, take it to Mt Moon (the last 3 pages of this haven't even been Misc-worthy).

    kthxbai
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Vulpix
    You have turned my vacation thread into a discussion about Heald's balls. You should be ashamed of yourselves.




  19. #99
    Mew Master of SCIENCE! Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Mew Master's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    6,272

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Magmar View Post
    Your argument is some kind of logical fallacy that I'm too lazy to look up and identify.
    Argument from Popularity.

    It boils down to: "If the majority believes it, it must be true."

    In context: "Lots of people like Nickleback, therefore Nickleback is good." (your millage may vary)

    However, I don't think Fox News is that popular, since John Stewart is more popular than Fox. [sic]

    Anyway, done politicking.. off to something more useful... like pulling tabs off of pillows.
    ~Mew Master

    ASB Battle Art
    Bring your Battles to Life

    Mew Master on "Tracer" Well at least I make you happy with my character's impending downward mental spiral.


    We don't like reality... we Re-draw it!

    Diamond Friend Code: 124696093377
    SoulSilver Friend Code: 296633754096

  20. #100
    Super Moderator
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    5,741

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Magmar View Post
    @Gavin: Yes, I am Sicilian and Irish, but mostly raised exclusively by my Sicilian side so don't really have many Irish qualities. I have heard 'wog' used before, but here they say 'wop' more often. I like to combine it and say I'm a McWhopper
    FORZA SICILIA!

    Gnarly to find a fellow Siciliano. And I see what you did there ... McWhopper ... clever ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Heald View Post
    I literally woke up ten minutes after the last post in this thread, after having gone to bed, like, 8 hours before this point now.

    Guys, you're shitting up this thread with MY POLITICS IS BETTER THAN YOUR POLITICS. You've both done nothing but prove one point; you disagree with each other. And congratulations, anyone who wanted to discuss the original topic now no longer wants to/cares.

    If you want to piss on about Democunts or Republitards, take it to Mt Moon (the last 3 pages of this haven't even been Misc-worthy).

    kthxbai
    Actually, I was about to say that this thread has absolutely nothing on the epic political/religious shitfights that broke out constantly circa 2004. Who ever would have thought I would actually find myself missing that era?
    Last edited by Gavin Luper; 19th July 2011 at 06:29 AM.
    ...Quest for the Truth of the Legend ...

    Lisa the Legend

    Winner of 12 Silver Pencil Awards 2011 - Including Best Plot, Best Character in a Leading Role, Best Moment and Best Fic of the Forum for Lisa the Legend!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pikachu
    Feel free to withdraw at any time, Gavin.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoKnight View Post
    ...Far too many references!! You're like the Swiss army knife of discussion.

  21. #101
    SW-2628-7394-6108 Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Magmar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri, US
    Posts
    7,382

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mew Master View Post
    (your millage may vary)
    Oh please tell me you spend countless hours on tvtropes.org <3 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Luper View Post
    FORZA SICILIA!

    Gnarly to find a fellow Siciliano. And I see what you did there ... McWhopper ... clever ...
    Forza sicilia
    everyone else best be jealous of our antipasto.
    winner of the (a)ncient (2009), (v)intage, (2009), (v)eteran award (2011), (e)veryone wins! (2011),
    (q)ueenly (2012), (y)ara sofia with Oslo (2012), (l)egalized (2014), (d)ream (2015), (a)ctive (2019), and (e)ighth generation unown awards! thanks TPM!

    member since day 1


    #OccupyMtMoon
    TPMNoVA12 ~ Hopes and Dreams ~ Team Birdo
    TPMUK12 ~ Drink the Pounds Away ~ Groceries

    3DS Code: 3325-3072-6715
    GO Code: 1336-7550-2201
    You Are Awesome.


  22. #102
    Mew Master of SCIENCE! Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Mew Master's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    6,272

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Magmar View Post
    Oh please tell me you spend countless hours on tvtropes.org <3 <3
    Yes I did, and no kissing on the first date.
    ~Mew Master

    ASB Battle Art
    Bring your Battles to Life

    Mew Master on "Tracer" Well at least I make you happy with my character's impending downward mental spiral.


    We don't like reality... we Re-draw it!

    Diamond Friend Code: 124696093377
    SoulSilver Friend Code: 296633754096

  23. #103
    Cloyster Moderator
    Moderator
    Jeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    4,453

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Magmar View Post
    Forza sicilia
    everyone else best be jealous of our antipasto.
    Except for those of us who are also Sicilian.
    Winner of the Unown Awards: 2008 "Hard Work", 2010 "Dedicated", 2012 "Journalist", 2012 "Unown", 2013 "Anchorman", 2014 "Unown", 2015 "Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff!"



    Facebook - YouTube - Miiverse
    Diamond: 1418 3196 1413 - SoulSilver: 0217 4582 5426 - White: 1119 9535 7054 - White 2: 1421 4560 4887 - X: same as 3DS
    3DS: 3866 8018 5231 - AIM: IslanderJeff02
    Joined November 8, 2004 - Modded October 24, 2008

  24. #104
    You crook! Ya CRIMINAL!! Veteran Trainer
    Veteran Trainer
    Blademaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Universe - 46 degrees north, 8 trillion degrees west
    Posts
    12,589

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Karrde View Post
    By the way the poor and rich have both gotten richer
    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Quote Originally Posted by Magmar View Post
    Your argument is some kind of logical fallacy that I'm too lazy to look up and identify.
    Argumentum ad populum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Except for those of us who are also Sicilian.
    Bari represent.

    (Nintendo) 4 Lyfe





    HEY! I do art commissions! Follow me and my pals on their website here!

  25. #105
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    http://www.economicmobility.org/asse...enerations.pdf

    Median family income rose by 29% between the two generations, from $55,600 in inflation-adjusted dollars to $71,900. Average family incomes, grew even more rapidly, from $61,600 to $88,000 (a 43% increase). Income growth occurred throughout the income distribution for all five quintiles, as shown in the top chart above (click to enlarge), although family income in the top quintile grew by 52%, compared to 18% for the bottom fifth.

    More than 2 out of every 3 Americans who were children in 1968 had higher levels of real family income in 1995–2002 than their parents had in 1967–1971 (see bottom chart above, click to enlarge). Children born to parents in the bottom fifth were MORE likely to surpass their parents’ income than children from any other background. More than four out of five children (82%) born to parents in the bottom quintile have greater family income than their parents. In contrast, less than half (43%) of those whose parents are in the top fifth of income surpass their parents.

    There is significant upward income mobility, especially for the lowest income group. Children born to parents in the bottom quintile are more likely to surpass their parents’ income (82%) than are children from any other background.

    http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/02/...-poor-are.html

    And then there is this:

    Roughly half of taxpayers who began in the bottom income quintile in 1996 moved up to a higher income group by 2005.

    Economic growth resulted in rising incomes for most taxpayers over the period from 1996 to 2005. Median incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation. The real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers increased over this period. In addition, the median incomes of those initially in the lower income groups increased more than the median incomes of those initially in the higher income groups.

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...3-08revise.pdf
    Last edited by Roy Karrde; 19th July 2011 at 04:45 PM.

  26. #106
    Super Moderator
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    5,741

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Except for those of us who are also Sicilian.
    :O YOU'RE SICILIAN TOO?

    And Blade is from Bari?!

    WTF.

    How many wogs are there on TPM? And how, in the years preceding this thread, did we never identify through a common love of pasta and grappa and sleep?

    Yes, I realise I am slightly derailing this thread.
    ...Quest for the Truth of the Legend ...

    Lisa the Legend

    Winner of 12 Silver Pencil Awards 2011 - Including Best Plot, Best Character in a Leading Role, Best Moment and Best Fic of the Forum for Lisa the Legend!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pikachu
    Feel free to withdraw at any time, Gavin.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoKnight View Post
    ...Far too many references!! You're like the Swiss army knife of discussion.

  27. #107
    RPG Dyke's Bitch Moderator
    Moderator
    ChobiChibi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In your base, killing your dudes.
    Posts
    3,009

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    People may be getting paid more than their parents, but living costs have also increased. Food, gas, petrol, electricity etc. You can't take one without the other.

    X-rated since April 2012!

    Weasel Overlord says:
    JIZZ EVERYWHERE

    Crystal Tears: Shut. Up.
    Or i will hog tie you
    and ram you
    with my train


  28. #108
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by ChobiChibi View Post
    People may be getting paid more than their parents, but living costs have also increased. Food, gas, petrol, electricity etc. You can't take one without the other.
    You may have missed the whole part of "Inflation adjusted dollars" they had already factored in that.

  29. #109
    RPG Dyke's Bitch Moderator
    Moderator
    ChobiChibi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In your base, killing your dudes.
    Posts
    3,009

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    An average. And I'm not your average American 8D

    X-rated since April 2012!

    Weasel Overlord says:
    JIZZ EVERYWHERE

    Crystal Tears: Shut. Up.
    Or i will hog tie you
    and ram you
    with my train


  30. #110
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer

    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    9,430

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    since the pdf does not work there is no way to determine the accuracy of their inflation adjustment process

    the main point is probably that the CPI indicates a 4.4% annual rate of inflation over the study period (1968-present) whereas real wages have not risen by anywhere near this amount over the same period (stats from bureau of labor statistics). so the real wage to price index ratio has been stagnant at best and declining for decades overall

    however the main premise that roy has adopted here is ignoring a fairly important issue

    the phrase being used in the cited statistics is "real family income" - could there be some obvious reason why this is not just real income? the difference between the current generation and the previous is the incidence of two-income families

    considering family income in this manner makes the difference in real wages over time appear fairly intolerable, given that the cited graphs display an 18% rise in the bottom quintile for family income, not individual hourly wages... what can we conclude from this

  31. #111
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    Roy Karrde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    North Richland Hills Texas
    Posts
    6,815

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by kurai View Post
    however the main premise that roy has adopted here is ignoring a fairly important issue

    the phrase being used in the cited statistics is "real family income" - could there be some obvious reason why this is not just real income? the difference between the current generation and the previous is the incidence of two-income families

    considering family income in this manner makes the difference in real wages over time appear fairly intolerable, given that the cited graphs display an 18% rise in the bottom quintile for family income, not individual hourly wages... what can we conclude from this
    There are various reasons, as also noted in the survey, people now are choosing to accept to have two kids, instead of three, and this goes across the entire spectrum. The fact is however the poor are getting richer, and they also have done so more recently, notice the second link: Roughly half of taxpayers who began in the bottom income quintile in 1996 moved up to a higher income group by 2005.

    Economic growth resulted in rising incomes for most taxpayers over the period from 1996 to 2005. Median incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation. The real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers increased over this period. In addition, the median incomes of those initially in the lower income groups increased more than the median incomes of those initially in the higher income groups.

  32. #112
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer

    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    9,430

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    this has nothing to do with what i said? your second link addresses entirely family incomes, which when considering the increased rate of division by two is an appalling decline rather per hour-worked than the 18% overall improvement suggested

    also "roughly half of taxpayers who began in the bottom income quintile in 1996 moved up to a higher income group by 2005" - they are at the bottom, where else would they go? this also means that 50% of the lower income group were new additions

    also comparing 1996 to 2005 median taxpayer income is not the quintile-differentiated intergenerational family income mobility premise being put forth in the original argument

    and you can just look at the graph i provided on real compensation difference over time for the longer period to see how this concept, when considered in real values, addresses what you were trying to argue before (a slight annual increase, but far below price index rises)

    thus a net decline overall

    edit we can alternately assume the given data is presented in an altogether inaccurate manner through some alternate interpretations
    Last edited by kurai; 20th July 2011 at 10:02 PM. Reason: link

  33. #113
    Master Trainer
    Master Trainer
    woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    where i live
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    no but get this they ROSE from 1996 game set and match lieberals

  34. #114
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    6,571

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Getting back to Michelle Bachmann, I heard an interesting story about her.

    A prominent Washington periodical recently revealed that she has suffered from chronic migraine headaches for a long time, and that the problem caused at least one aide to quit. The article suggested, in so many words, that if she were President and the phone rang at three AM, she might just yank the cord out of the wall.

    Bachman's response: She indeed had a problem with migraines, but she took prescription medication for them, and they were under control.

    Now, the periodical in question was a well-known conservative publication, which may mean that her Republican rivals were just trying to discredit her, meaning that this was all dirty politics. But it raises a big question about her campaign goals.

    She has vowed to "do everything in (her) power to repeal Obamacare", a program that would, among other things, make prescription migraine medication readily available to everyone.

    So what's her view on the millions of Americans who, like her, suffer from chronic migraine headaches, but unlike her, can't afford the medicine to keep them "under control"?

  35. #115
    You crook! Ya CRIMINAL!! Veteran Trainer
    Veteran Trainer
    Blademaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Universe - 46 degrees north, 8 trillion degrees west
    Posts
    12,589

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Luper View Post
    :O YOU'RE SICILIAN TOO?

    And Blade is from Bari?!

    WTF.

    How many wogs are there on TPM? And how, in the years preceding this thread, did we never identify through a common love of pasta and grappa and sleep?
    Actually my great-grandparents are from Bari. Every generation since then has been American, though the culture really skipped over my mom's generation and got to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Luper View Post
    Yes, I realise I am slightly derailing this thread.
    This thread's been derailed since Page 2. Though if the Powers That Be wish it, we can always just make a heritage-ish thread where we discuss our love of our native foods, alcohols (even though I don't drink), and predesignated resting periods.

    (Nintendo) 4 Lyfe





    HEY! I do art commissions! Follow me and my pals on their website here!

  36. #116
    Super Moderator
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    5,741

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    This thread's been derailed since Page 2. Though if the Powers That Be wish it, we can always just make a heritage-ish thread where we discuss our love of our native foods, alcohols (even though I don't drink), and predesignated resting periods.
    I, for one, support this.
    ...Quest for the Truth of the Legend ...

    Lisa the Legend

    Winner of 12 Silver Pencil Awards 2011 - Including Best Plot, Best Character in a Leading Role, Best Moment and Best Fic of the Forum for Lisa the Legend!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pikachu
    Feel free to withdraw at any time, Gavin.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoKnight View Post
    ...Far too many references!! You're like the Swiss army knife of discussion.

  37. #117
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    6,571

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    I'm willing to say the heck with it if everyone else is. I didn't want this to turn into a political debate. I just wanted honest opinions about one quote-unquote candidate due to a poll that I thought was skewed.

  38. #118
    Super Moderator
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    5,741

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Nothing wrong with a political debate, DS - in fact I'm glad to see Misc still has some argument and life left in it. And Michelle Bachmann is definitely worthy of debating given the frightening level of "relevance" she seems to have accrued somehow.

    Regarding the migraine dealio, I heard of this, too. How can this possibly look good to the American public? I mean, why would you vote someone in if they have admitted to something like that? I'm not saying people can't function if they have migraines, but if she gets migraines BEFORE getting elected ... what the hell happens when she's placed into arguably the most stressful job in the world?

    (DS: Keep your thread going and just ignore us Italians - we're just grumbling in the background because we haven't been fed yet. We'll find our own thread soon enough! ^_^)
    ...Quest for the Truth of the Legend ...

    Lisa the Legend

    Winner of 12 Silver Pencil Awards 2011 - Including Best Plot, Best Character in a Leading Role, Best Moment and Best Fic of the Forum for Lisa the Legend!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pikachu
    Feel free to withdraw at any time, Gavin.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoKnight View Post
    ...Far too many references!! You're like the Swiss army knife of discussion.

  39. #119
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    6,571

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Gavin, I am Italian!

    Well, I may not have been born there, but I'm of Italian ancestry. There's nothing I like better than pasta on weekends. (I'd love a canole now and then too, but I have to lose weight.)

  40. #120
    You crook! Ya CRIMINAL!! Veteran Trainer
    Veteran Trainer
    Blademaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Universe - 46 degrees north, 8 trillion degrees west
    Posts
    12,589

    Default Re: Michelle Bachman: I want honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Sage View Post
    Gavin, I am Italian!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Sage View Post
    canole
    Out.

    Now.

    (Nintendo) 4 Lyfe





    HEY! I do art commissions! Follow me and my pals on their website here!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •