2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Dark Sage]

But since Arpaio, Trump, and Nugent do not actually work for Romney, going out and denouncing them right now would be a waste of breath and time as it takes coverage of his message and shifts it completely in a different direction.

I mean I would love to see Romney do it, but in the realm of Presidential Campaign Politics you do not have the time to lose a few news cycles that could be used for your message. However when it is a member of your own campaign team, it is your duty to denounce them, fire them, and apologize to the other guy, that is just leadership as you are responsible for those beneath you. Obama has yet to do that.

I still think that if he did it, it would prove that he was the bigger man. And it would take all of ten minutes of his time.

Know why I think he won't do it? Because like all Republicans, he's scared to. Members of the GOP have lost votes and have even lost elections by standing up to the Birthers. Now they're scared of losing votes to these bigots. And that's just pitiful.

Edit: By the way, Roy, I looked up this story. And Romney's response to it is interesting. He calls the accusations "disgusting" and calls them "dirty politics", but when he was asked straight out if the President's campaign team were liars, this was his response:

"There's no question but that his campaign is putting out information which is false and deceptive and dishonest. And they know it. And they ought to stop."

It seems to me he kind of avoided giving a straight answer to that question which could have been answered with a simple "yes" or "no". Of course, I'm not blaming him... That's what politicians do, right? I'm not saying that the accusations are true (I know too little about it to judge) but if he thinks that these are lies, he should say they are.

[Roy Karrde]

Edit: By the way, Roy, I looked up this story. And Romney's response to it is interesting. He calls the accusations "disgusting" and calls them "dirty politics", but when he was asked straight out if the President's campaign team were liars, this was his response:

It seems to me he kind of avoided giving a straight answer to that question which could have been answered with a simple "yes" or "no". Of course, I'm not blaming him... That's what politicians do, right? I'm not saying that the accusations are true (I know too little about it to judge) but if he thinks that these are lies, he should say they are.

Simple: Because he does not want to invoke the "You Lie" memory of Joe Wilson, by calling the President a liar. Right now the Obama Campaign looks like evil little bastards, and Romney looks like the victim, he needs to keep looking that way on this subject and to do that he doesn't need to be calling the President or his campaign liars.

Edit: Dude even CNN is calling Obama's Campaign as "Swiftboating" Romney.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...boating-romney

[Dark Sage]

Roy... Read some of the reader's responses in that link, and you'll see what their target audience is...

They remind me of a group of name-calling first graders.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy... Read some of the reader's responses in that link, and you'll see what their target audience is...

They remind me of a group of name-calling first graders.

I know, Blade, but I see them all the time... People who talk about the "Muslim Communist in the White House".

These ignorant people don't see the facts. Mr. Obama was married by a Protestant minister. His children were baptized by the same minister. No-one has ever seen him perform the daily prayers facing Mecca that all Muslims, without exception, are required to do. And he had done photo-ops where he has been shown on camera eating foods that are taboo to the Islamic faith.

But when I present this evidence to these clowns, they say I'm a "misguided sheep who is drinking too much Kool-Aid", referencing a tragic event that did not even involve that brand of soft drink. (It was actually Flavor-Aid. Shows how much they know.)

I would say these people are stupid, but they aren't. You don't choose to be stupid. This is ignorance.

What do these two things have ANYTHING to do with the CNN transcript? I want to know, I honestly want to know how what users post in reference to a article, has ANYTHING to do with it. I want to see you explain it.

[Dark Sage]

That link you provided was another link to a conservative webpage full of replies by ignorant fools. It was not a link to any CNN transcript I know.

[Roy Karrde]

That link you provided was another link to a conservative webpage full of replies by ignorant fools. It was not a link to any CNN transcript I know.

"MITT ROMNEY: They announced early on, one of their insiders said that they -- their -- their campaign was going to be based upon the strategy of -- quote -- "kill Romney," end of quote. That's what they're doing. It's disgusting. It's demeaning. It's something which I think the president should take responsibility for and stop.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN: And do you believe you're being swiftboated in this campaign?"



That is the third paragraph on the page.



"(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NARRATOR: When a president doesn't tell the truth, how can we trust him to Romney's companies were pioneers of shipping U.S. jobs overseas.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even in the flood of negative ads pouring out of each side of this race, Democrats are hitting one target again and again and again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bain capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bain capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bain capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bain capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bain capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bain capital walked away with a lot of money that they made off of this plant.

FOREMAN: The White House clearly wants to portray Mitt Romney's time at the helm of Bain Capital as a weak spot. In ad after ad, Democrats are suggesting Romney is a fat cat job outsourcer, an opportunistic financial predator, and a leader's out of touch with the working class. Never mind that many of those claims appear to be backed with little or no evidence.
Story Continues Below Ad ↓

KEN GOLDSTEIN, PRESIDENT, CMAG-KANTAR MEDIA: The Obama campaign is absolutely doubling down on the Bain attack, no doubt about it. And if the work triple down existed, they would be doing that as well.

FOREMAN: Ken Goldstein is the political media analyst who believes President Obama was at one point looking to steal a page from Ronald Reagan's playbook, planning an optimistic, positive reelection campaign until economic troubles and weak poll numbers hit hard.

GOLDSTEIN: I think the Obama folks were hoping to run a campaign like "morning in America" in 1984. But the campaign I think they're look at is much more the George W. Bush campaign in 2004.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The accusations that John Kerry...

FOREMAN: He's talking about the swiftboat campaign, in which President Bush's challenger John Kerry was demonized over what his campaign considered an attribute. His decorated service as a soldier in Vietnam. The swiftboat ads, backed by a group of pro-Bush veterans, questioned the Democratic challenger's conduct in the war, his anti-war activities later and his patriotism.

(on camera): Kerry was slow to respond and never very effective in refuting their claims even though his critics offered little in the way of proof. He lost the election of course. And for many Democrats, swiftboating became a catch-all term for any unfair, untrue, personal assault on a candidate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Romney's companies...

FOREMAN (voice-over): But if the president is troubled by the comparison of his Bain attacks to Republican swiftboating, he's not showing it.
Story Continues Below Ad ↓

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think that when you're president, everything's call into questions. When you are president, everything is coming across you.

FOREMAN: Romney's tough responses this week appear to have been spurred by Republican calls for him to hit back fast.

GOLDSTEIN: Because as much as a presidential election is a referendum on the incumbent, the challenger still needs to reach that threshold level of credibility.

ROMNEY: I need you guys to work.

FOREMAN: And if he doesn't, some Republican analysts fear Mitt Romney could become the second politician from Massachusetts swiftboated out of the presidency."





That is right afterwards, for you to reach the comments section YOU WOULD HAVE TO SCROLL PAST THE WHOLE FREAKING TRANSCRIPT!

[Dark Sage]

I apologize and take back that statement.

Still... Strange...

Romney spent a lot of time while governor crafting a bill that he likely knew would stand no chance of passing the state legislature..

Sounds kinda familiar, doesn't it?

[Dark Sage]

Another thing, Roy. If these accusations were false, you'd think that Romney would have documents handy that would prove so.

If he produced such documents, he'd make Obama look like a complete fool, and he'd skyrocket ahead in the polls.

But he has yet to produce any. So far we've had to take him at his word when he says that "There's no question but that his campaign is putting out information which is false and deceptive and dishonest. And they know it. And they ought to stop." But where he falls short of calling them lies.

[Roy Karrde]

Another thing, Roy. If these accusations were false, you'd think that Romney would have documents handy that would prove so.

If he produced such documents, he'd make Obama look like a complete fool, and he'd skyrocket ahead in the polls.

But he has yet to produce any. So far we've had to take him at his word when he says that "There's no question but that his campaign is putting out information which is false and deceptive and dishonest. And they know it. And they ought to stop." But where he falls short of calling them lies.

"Jill E. Fisch, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School and co-director of the Institute for Law and Economics, said Romney would not have committed a felony by listing himself as managing director — even if he now claims he had no role in running the company after February 1999. There is no legal obligation to describe how active one is in the day-to-day management of the company, she said. And just because he held title of managing director doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s responsible for decisions like layoffs or outsourcing.

“If that really mattered to investors, they might consider that a civil liability, but we wouldn’t be talking about a felony,” she said."

http://factcheck.org/2012/07/romneys...me-conclusion/

"Moreover, unwinding a private equity firm's ownership structure is extremely complicated. The "firm" itself is largely a legal construct of convenience, since it doesn't pay salaries, make investments or do much of anything else. Instead, what matters are the individual funds.

In the case of Bain Capital's funds, it's reasonable to assume that Romney was considered a "key man," meaning that each fund's limited partners could have voted to end the fund's investment period -- or take over fund management themselves -- if a super-majority felt it prudent. But that didn't happen, and Bain saw no reason to expend massive administrative effort to amend existing funds. Instead, it asked Romney to sign documents when necessary, and made the managerial/ownership changes on new funds going forward.

...

First, we've already dealt with why Romney was listed on the documents. The part about lying to the SEC is absurd, since the SEC doesn't require an owner to be the operational decision-maker (Romney delegated such responsibilities, as is his right)."

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/...ly-leave-bain/

"And after reviewing evidence cited by the Obama campaign, we reaffirm our conclusion that Romney left the helm of Bain Capital when he took a leave of absence in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee for the 2002 Winter Olympics – as he has said repeatedly — and never returned to active management. The Obama campaign’s recent ads thus mislead when they point to investments made by Bain, as well as management decisions made by companies in which Bain invested, after that time.

What does the Obama campaign have in rebuttal? Very little, and none of it convincing in our judgment."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...html#pagebreak

“Team Obama does not provide any specific evidence to back up claims that Romney was actively managing Bain between 1999 and 2002.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...e-bain-debate/

Should I continue?

[Dark Sage]

Strange... This "evidence" doesn't seem to hurting Mr. Obama that much...

[Roy Karrde]

Strange... This "evidence" doesn't seem to hurting Mr. Obama that much...

A: What is with the "" the evidence is quite clear, coming from numerous sources.

B: It is the Summer, people do not pay much attention.

C: Obama can only manage parity with Romney after spending 100 million in attack ads. In other word Obama is shooting its wad, and not able to move the needle.

BTW the DNC now completely owns this stupid attack.

"Either Mitt Romney was lying on SEC forms and misrepresenting to his investors — which could be a felony — that he was the sole owner, president, CEO of Bain Capital from 1999 until almost the end of 2001, or he wasn't and represented that he was," Wasserman Schultz said. "It can't be both. And so if he was sole owner, president, CEO, then he is to be held accountable for the decisions that were made for the outsourcing of jobs that took place during that time."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...1#.UAStBvWZiSp

What a dumb bitch...

[Dark Sage]

As I said before, Roy, YOU are calling them liars.

Romney himself apparently does not have the nerve to do so. When asked if they were lying, he didn't give a straight answer.

[Roy Karrde]

As I said before, Roy, YOU are calling them liars.

Romney himself apparently does not have the nerve to do so. When asked if they were lying, he didn't give a straight answer.

It doesn't matter if it is a lie or not ( And it is as according to Washington Post and Fact Checker ). You do not call your opponent a criminal, period, end of story.

[Dark Sage]

Again, I don't recall Mr. Obama himself saying it.

In fact, he has not confirmed or denied anything in this whole issue.

Now, I am not saying that these accusations are true or not, but I will say that they are a lot more believable than the Birther accusations made against Mr. Obama., as you say they are.

I would personally rate the validity of the claims made by the Birthers alongside the claims that Elvis is still alive.

[Roy Karrde]

Again, I don't recall Mr. Obama himself saying it.

In fact, he has not confirmed or denied anything in this whole issue.

Now, I am not saying that these accusations are true or not, but I will say that they are a lot more believable than the Birther accusations made against Mr. Obama., as you say they are.

I would personally rate the validity of the claims made by the Birthers alongside the claims that Elvis is still alive.

A: It came by Obama's own campaign, thus he owns it because as Obama has said, the buck stops with him.

B: When given a chance to denounce what his campaign said he denied it.

C: The validity of the argument has already been destroyed both by Fact Checker and Washington Post so again the believability of it is at the same of the debunked birther arguments.

If Obama values the office of the Presidency then he needs to fire the idiots who pushed this view point and apologize to Romney. Then again this is Obama we are talking about...

[Dark Sage]

And Romney needs to disavow his association with Trump and SuperPACs run by bigots.

Your point?