2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Dark Sage]

Believe me, Roy... Not many people are taking his side...

[Roy Karrde]

Believe me, Roy... Not many people are taking his side...

You know what? You do not have to take his side to support his right to freedom of speech. Honestly I am taken by surprise by how many on the left have quickly come out in support of Anti Blasphamy laws these past few days, even though they would utterly rip apart Athiests ( A Key constituency of the left )

Edit: BBC has a new article on the US consulate, it's sad we have to go to the British press for info.

"US embassies and consulates in areas of the world where they are deemed liable to attack are usually offered a formal security contract called a Worldwide Protective Services Agreement, known in the industry as a 'Wips'.

The contract, or so-called tasking order, is between the US state department and any one of several major private military contractors such as DynCorp International and Aegis Defence Services.

Under this agreement, extensive security precautions are put in place, including low-profile armoured vehicles, run-flat tyres, sufficient weapons, ammunition and trained personnel, as well as a tried and tested command and control system.

But sources have told the BBC that on the advice of a US diplomatic regional security officer, the mission in Benghazi was not given the full contract despite lobbying by private contractors.

Instead, the US consulate was guarded externally by a force of local Libyan militia, many of whom reportedly put down their weapons and fled once the mission came under concerted attack. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19605322

[Dark Sage]

You're a fine one to speak on what constitues Free Speech, Roy. You and all other Republicans.

When G.H.W. Bush was President, a court ruled that the right of Free Speech protected your right to burn the American flag, and Bush Senior didn't like this. He tried to gain support for a Constituional Amendment that would make desecration of the flag a crime.

He got very little. Which is, to get off the subject, one of the reasons why I say that the GOP's platform goal of adding not one, but two Constitutonal Amendments is a fantasy. Most ideas for changing the Constitution don't even get as far as the ERA did, if they even get past the drawing board.

And btw, why are all your sources about this breach of security coming from British news agencies and not ours?

[Roy Karrde]

You're a fine one to speak on what constitues Free Speech, Roy. You and all other Republicans.

Umm dude I was like 7 when Bush was in office.

When G.H.W. Bush was President, a court ruled that the right of Free Speech protected your right to burn the American flag, and Bush Senior didn't like this. He tried to gain support for a Constituional Amendment that would make desecration of the flag a crime.

Which I am sure many people are conflicted upon but they ruled correctly.

And btw, why are all your sources about this breach of security coming from British news agencies and not ours?

Makes you wonder if the American press is trying to cover Obama's ass doesn't it?

[Dark Sage]

Makes you wonder if the American press is trying to cover Obama's ass doesn't it?

You might have a point if not for the fact that even Fox News won't support Romney on this.

Even Rush Limbaugh is avoiding the issue. Instead, he made his most wild "theory" yet yesterday, claiming that Al-Qaida "gave up" Osama bin Laden to make Mr. Obama look good because they were afraid of what would happen if Obama lost re-election.

Frankly, I think that the painkillers are starting to affect his brain.

[Roy Karrde]

You might have a point if not for the fact that even Fox News won't support Romney on this.

Last time I checked Fox News was ripping into the media and Obama for their handling of all of this.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-dr...-attacking-rom

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...ma-because-med

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/megyn-kel...gypt-response/

[Gavin Luper]

Let me put it this way, Roy...

Four people are dead because of this.

No, make that eight. There's news that four protesters have been killed in Yemen today.

Now try to justify what he did.

Blame Obama as much as you want for not making the places more secure. He was not what drove the mobs to anger in the first place.

So.. now you are blaming a man thousands of miles away for the deaths of those people, not the mob who killed them, not the preachers who incited them, but a man and his film. His "Art" his "Speech" and it was Speech and Art, did not kill those people, that mob did. Period, Paragraph, End of story.

I reckon Hillary Clinton summed it up pretty well:

"To us, to me, personally, this video is disgusting and reprehensible. It appears to have a deeply cynical purpose, to denigrate a great religion and to provoke rage," Mrs Clinton said.

"But as I said yesterday, there is no justification, none at all, for responding to this video with violence."

The dude who made the video was presumably trying to be controversial and provoke a stir - this is giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he didn't have more sinister intentions. There was no way of really knowing how huge the scale of the outrage would be globally, though. Even though the filmmaker is probably a total idiot and his work reprehensible indeed (though I haven't watched the film), I don't think it's right to say he's responsible for these deaths - the people who carried out the violence are the ones who hold responsibility and accountability for how they expressed their outrage. Violence like this is never okay.

[Dark Sage]

"Idiot", Gavin? He was a bigot who made a hate propaganda movie.

That's the long and short of it.

[Roy Karrde]

"Idiot", Gavin? He was a bigot who made a hate propaganda movie.

That's the long and short of it.

And? At the end of the day he has every right to do it, just as you have every right to call him a bigot, or his views hateful.

And if that right causes a 1,000 protests in the Middle East, at the end of the day it is still worth it.

[Gavin Luper]

"Idiot", Gavin? He was a bigot who made a hate propaganda movie.

That's the long and short of it.

I can't really be sure whether it was poor-taste satire or hateful, but I don't see how it actually incited hate or violence against anyone. I have watched parts of it and whatever it is, it's dreadful, though frankly not as offensive to muslims as far more mainstream films have been - Team America was far more offensive in some ways, I reckon.

Being a bigot is abhorrent and disgusting, but not actually against the law, remember - at least, not in the United States. And in any case, someone expressing bigoted views is not a justification for violent retaliation against, and murder of, the fellow citizens and embassies of the home nation of said bigot.