Hoothooters! Can I get sum?

[Oslo]

Haha, my aversion to the Paras line has nothing to do with stats and is only partly to do with its unfortunate typing. It's a pinchy fungus crab. Not my cup of tea. That's the principal reason why I think it sucks, not at all unlike your distaste for a certain OVERSIZEDPINEAPPLEDUCK.

But if you heart Paras, then go on and continue hearting Paras.

[Charles Legend]

No. Its fugly. Honest. Why? it looks like Weedle. Eww.

]no it's not, but I did notice something so far all the odd number gens introduced a new Pokemon based off a caterpillar, were as the even gens have mainly two stage bugs that are not based off a caterpillar/moth.

I've told you in our battle and I'll tell you here, Legend: SHUT YOUR HOLE!

No I have just as much of a right to speck my mind as anyone else here dose, so quit being a jackass Blade.

~Charles Legend

[Blademaster]

Speck your mind? SPECK your mind!? You can't even speck English! *slap*

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Blade, enough of the Charles taunting/bashing. This is the second time now I have to warn you.

[Blademaster]

Yeah, yeah, alright.

[Mew Master]

We get it, you ppl don't like Paras (and Blade doesn't like Charles...but is there anything he DOES like?), I never cared much for the pokemon myself. Always got Bulbasaur if I needed a Plant-Type on my team, other than that, never had a need for em.

[DarkestLight]

You lie. Tangela rocks your socks :O

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Cradily is the most badass Grass.

SUCTION CUPS!

[DarkestLight]

Whoo that's a tough claim. Cradily is ok...but its seriously too dopey looking to be the best >P. Hey where the hell you been at, btw MLG !

[Charles Legend]

I meant Speak Blade.

Anyways moving on here a new subject Shikijika is confirmed to be normal/Grass and to changes in appearance with the changing of the seasons, but how will we handle it and or seasons?

But yeah I think we should take this time to rework the ASB from the ground up, and re think how it works, I mean we are now going on six years now and not much has really changed I mean compared to other ASB Leagues around the web we are a freaken out dated joke.

~Charles Legend.

[RaZoR LeAf]

I always found PASBL to be over complicated, with far too many rules and regulations that took away the fun. There's a few things that could be introduced here, but would take a while to trial first like items, TMs, re-introducing sig-moves. We've had contests, what about the Pokethalon form HGSS, any way we could make an ASB version of that?

PS. Torterra has a freakin' TREE on it's back. That's awesome. Certainly more awesome than old 'Bannana Beard' Tropius.

[DarkestLight]

Really Charles? The way I see it, the simple fact that we keep core guidelines and add as needed makes us a more evolved ASB than others. Sure we don't have some of the other amenities, like Items and TM's and what not, but the scope of our ASB is moreso focused on Battling.

..I typed out a long ...LONG post trying to discern why we don't have things like Razor mentioned, but then I looked through the Suggestion tower, and about all the things that were "missing" from ASB. These things aren't new-and they aren't that controversial.

So..aside from Sig moves (you hush Blade, that idea is still pending), do you all as a whole ASB, feel that the introduction of Items, TM and all the other strange bells and whistles of the games are truly necessary. This is a great topic for suggestion-and I really want input.

[Mew Master]

On TMs... Why bother? According to our rules PKMN already have access to all the moves they can learn leagaly in game which already includes all the HMs, TMs, Breeding, and Tutor moves. This already makes them more versitile than in the games and makes the battles more challenging. Especially against the Gen I Pokes who have four pages of usable moves on Bulbapedia vs the Gen IV.

Items are in the same boat. Do we really need them? I as a Ref finds that this adds another level of complication in reffing as it's a third list of things to keep track of when reffing matches (Moves, Abilties, then Items?). I'd rather not have them, as when they would really come into the battle can become an issue as well. You could make the rule optional, but that could limit who would battle under what terms.

Abilities work the same way (being optional) and it hasn't really detracted from the game so far, so it may be a minor concern.

On Razor's suggestion for a Pokelthon, I've thought about how to do a Speed Battle, where the opponents are racing each other and battling at the same time. Need to work out some kinks and go over the math in my head, but it may be doable.

[chaos_redefined]

I agree with denz about TMs and items. I'm still up for the casino, my issues are in the implementation. As I've already stated, games on there have problems that a lot of people here haven't clued on to yet. Voltorb flip would end up being a problem if it ends up popular, since the mods are unlikely to make multiple threads for it, and would take too long, luck-based games are, well, luck-based. I presented a couple of ideas, but one had flavour problems and one had "wtf are you talking about?" problems.

[RaZoR LeAf]

The "do we really need them" argument is a bit stale. We managed 3rd gen ASB without abilities perfectly fine, and even now they are not mandatory in a battle. If they were, then we could argue against using items, since their not that much of a presence in the anime, but since we turn them on and off at will, items would be no different. And as for refs keeping track of things, the arenas WE make are becoming more and more complex as time goes on. Your come back match is set in an arena with 15 different zones each with their own boost that change when a pokemon faints and both pokemon are recalled and omg i'm confused just thinking about it. How could adding items make it any more difficult?

This is the way I see it:
Only certain items are made available, ones that would have proper and real uses in a battle. They cost points, the better the item, the more points, but items themselves don't last forever. Every item has a number of uses before it is useless, which means you can't re-use an item 10 times in one battle. You've got your basic Potions that restore health at different amounts (say Potion 10%, Super Potion 15%, Hyper Potion 25%), Ethers would restore energy, but are more expensive. Status healers (Antidote, Parlysis Heal, etc) would do exactly what they say on the tin.

Items like this would be used in a battle in the place of a move. So you say "Use Sandstorm, then Rock Tomb, then I'll heal my pokemon with a Potion".

You could even add 'Held Items'. These would work a little differently, as you'd have to declare at the start of the battle, that the pokemon held them. Things like the Damp Rock, Heat Rock, etc which would lengthen the time weather moves take place. Leftovers would restore HP like some moves or abilities would. The basic type boosters, Mystic Water, Charcoal etc would be easy enough to interpret.

A topic similar to the Bank would have to be set up, so everytime an item was bought (or found), it would be registered, and then every time one was used and finally used up, it would be recorded.

You'd also give a little more fun an incentive to the Safari Zone goers, who could find items whilst trekking, and the Pick Up ability would be a lot more useful too.

If a Pokethalon was introduced, then there's a lot more scope for Berries and Apricorns to be used, to create Poffins for contests and Aprijuice for Pokethalon events.

---

As for TMs, I only mentioned it because I came across the topic where the ASb reboot was happening and it was something I suggested there. Yes, pokemon can use every move they can learn, but what if they could use more? We have a list of TMs that are of certain moves. You buy a TM and use it on your pokemon, and from there on, that pokemon can use the move where they couldn't before. They'd need approval as if it were a signature move, and we'd maybe have to decide if we limit what pokemon can learn what move (like a Grass type learning an electric move or something).

[Blademaster]

So..aside from Sig moves (you hush Blade, that idea is still pending)

Define "pending." >>

Also, I don't think adding TM's is needed. Every Pokemon can learn every move, and adding new ones would just add another level of complication to battling. I already have to go to Serebii.net every time I battle so I can strategize. I don't need a TM list to add to that.

Items I'm a bit averse to simply because, again, it adds another layer of complication that is largely unneeded. Some Abilities revolve around Items, yeah. But Adding Items could REALLY imbalance what we have going here. When will it stop? We have Abilities, then Items... What next? EV training at the Safari Zone?

[chaos_redefined]

Items as described above, give an unfair advantage to players who have been around longer. Held items aren't so bad, as we can give a couple to starting players, usable items... not so much.

TMs, same deal. Also, requires significantly more balance concerns.

I suggest an alternate view at fixing this place up. Rather than add stuff for the sake of adding stuff, ask yourselves "What's wrong?" first. I'd sooner look at giving new players some free points than adding items or TMs, since the free points allows them to do something, while the items and TMs gives the older players (who already have stuff to do) something to do.

[Oslo]

Since so many battles ban non-damaging recovery moves, I'm not sure Potions and the like would make a welcome addition. Overall, I'm opposed to the idea of items and TMs. *shrugs* They'd certainly add another layer to what we have going on here, but not a particularly interesting one, for me at least.

[Mew Master]

The "do we really need them" argument is a bit stale.

The "if it's not broken, why fix it" position is still a valid position and not stale. I believe my original stance was neutral but leaning towards not adding Abilities to ASB when it was first considered. Either way I'm in and reffing matches that use and don't use abilities. I even reffed the first "Test" Battle of Abilities between MLG and TML.

And as for refs keeping track of things, the arenas WE make are becoming more and more complex as time goes on. Your come back match is set in an arena with 15 different zones each with their own boost that change when a pokemon faints and both pokemon are recalled and omg i'm confused just thinking about it. How could adding items make it any more difficult?

It's 16 if you count the starting area, and it's not really a come-back match, it's an arena that I wanted to try out and designed. I wanted to ref it myself, BUT no one made it past the first arena change <<U Sides, DL's crazy enough to ref it without losing what little sanity some of us think he has.

It's really no more complicated than some of the Gym Leader Arenas... And several of the one's Blade's tossed together.

And Items added into the mix of Arena Specific limitations, Abilties, and Attack orders and such would but a bit of a strain on the Refs, imho.

You'd also give a little more fun an incentive to the Safari Zone goers, who could find items whilst trekking, and the Pick Up ability would be a lot more useful too.

I actually was using some Items in my Saf Zone reffings, including chances to find items such as PokeBalls, Berries, Rods, ect. Adding some items to the Saf Zone wouldn't be a bad idea, I think, but not to the rest of the league.

If a Pokethalon was introduced, then there's a lot more scope for Berries and Apricorns to be used, to create Poffins for contests and Aprijuice for Pokethalon events.

And how do you suggest we keep track of these contest changes, when the actuall "Cool" "Smart" "Tough" ect doesn't really come into play in the Anime or in our current contests?

Yes, pokemon can use every move they can learn, but what if they could use more?

Gonna stop you there. While it would be fun to tack on new TM moves to PKMN, it just... GAH makes me head hurt trying to figure out why and how it can learn something outside of the official set. Even with our Regulation in the Approval Tower, Bank Tower, ect, I still don't like it.

I'd sooner look at giving new players some free points than adding items or TMs, since the free points allows them to do something, while the items and TMs gives the older players (who already have stuff to do) something to do.

I wouldn't be against something for the newbies and the veterans on the boards. We tried the Ladder (I glanced in that topic and sad I didn't get a chance to participate in it), so maybe something like Trainer Rankings outside the Ladder and Gym Leaders?

Maybe for the newbies, they're given more points at the end of their first four completed Matches? Maybe Veterans could get something similar to Refs when they finish a certain amount of battles per their rank? Not winning matches, but rather completed matches.

Of course the other option is to do something else entirely crazy... like come up with TPM exclusive PKMN... Or bring back Sig Moves... o.o

[chaos_redefined]

Maybe for the newbies, they're given more points at the end of their first four completed Matches? Maybe Veterans could get something similar to Refs when they finish a certain amount of battles per their rank? Not winning matches, but rather completed matches.

I like these. +1 for these ideas.

[Blademaster]

It's really no more complicated than some of the Gym Leader Arenas... And several of the one's Blade's tossed together.

Yyyyyeah, I'm gonna ask to be left OUT of the clusterfuck category, thanks. I've come up with some creative ideas, but I'm largely NOT fond of those scatterbrained changing arenas that have a different type advantage/status effect/shaped like a different letter of the alphabet each round. It's really an annoying concept to try to keep up with and the fact that so many people use it - including HALF OUR GYM LEADERS - just shows how dated and uncreative it is, no matter how many fancy names you refer to it by.

EDIT: Just took a closer look at the Dragon Roost. Holy FUCK am I with Dan on this one. That place goes waaaaaaay beyond the clusterfuck category. It might as well have it's own damn sub-forum there's so much shit flying around in it.

[Mew Master]

Oh shut it Blade, you've come up with worse.

[DarkestLight]

It's really an annoying concept to try to keep up with and the fact that so many people use it - including HALF OUR GYM LEADERS -

::Looks::

MLG-no
Grey-Yes
Elf-Yes
Weasie-No
Blade-No
Me - no

Half of 6 is 3, so no. I'm gonna disagree there :O

[Mew Master]

Sides Blade, Need I remind you of some of your own crazy Arena Matches?

Major General
Black and White
Smash Bros

[Unbraced]

I'm Back! Did-jua miss me?

...


I Didn't think so.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Yyyyyeah, I'm gonna ask to be left OUT of the clusterfuck category, thanks. I've come up with some creative ideas, but I'm largely NOT fond of those scatterbrained changing arenas that have a different type advantage/status effect/shaped like a different letter of the alphabet each round. It's really an annoying concept to try to keep up with and the fact that so many people use it - including HALF OUR GYM LEADERS - just shows how dated and uncreative it is, no matter how many fancy names you refer to it by.

EDIT: Just took a closer look at the Dragon Roost. Holy FUCK am I with Dan on this one. That place goes waaaaaaay beyond the clusterfuck category. It might as well have it's own damn sub-forum there's so much shit flying around in it.

Fuck off Whitetail

[DarkestLight]

Fuck off Whitetail

I gotta ask. Whitetail? XD.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

I am not sure.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I like complex arena's, but the problem with ASB is that matches take quite a while to finish. Plus, you've got more then one match going on at the same time, so I tend to forget some banned-moves/special-added-arena-effect/etc. Which makes general arena's more attractive for swift battling.

Or maybe that's just me being lazy =/

Actually, I think I have the simplest arena out of the gymleaders.

[Blademaster]

Oh shut it Blade, you've come up with worse.

Than the Dragon Roost? BULLSHIT.

::Looks::

MLG-no
Grey-Yes
Elf-Yes
Weasie-No
Blade-No
Me - no

Half of 6 is 3, so no. I'm gonna disagree there :O

Obligatory black that can't do math joke.

YOU have such an arena, Darkly. Those elemental suits of armor that have different powers, status afflictions, and even moods? They fit the bill.

Sides Blade, Need I remind you of some of your own crazy Arena Matches?

No, you need to shut up. But since you're going to open your noisehole anyway...

Major General

Nearly one and a half years old. Grew to despise the complexity of it before it was even half-finished.

Black and White

Every Pokemon and attack is Normal-type... Yeah, that's TOTALLY on par with your half-battle half-RPG forum post abomination. By the way, that last sentence was sarcasm.

Smash Bros

A battle from nearly 3 years ago that Darkly had all say over beyond me suggesting "Why don't we fight on the revealed Brawl battlefields?"?

And you complain about the 'examples' I cite in debates...

Actually, I think I have the simplest arena out of the gymleaders.

Seconded. You probably have the simplest Badge, too.

[chaos_redefined]

Furthermore, to blade's point... I reffed one of the gyms that change regularly. The effects barely showed. A lot of the time, if things change too often, they just ignored.

[Mew Master]

Than the Dragon Roost? BULLSHIT.

I give you three examples of your bat-shit-crazy Arenas and you call bullshit. Wow, you don't know when you've lost do you?

YOU have such an arena, Darkly. Those elemental suits of armor that have different powers, status afflictions, and even moods? They fit the bill.

No, they really don't. There's not a shift in the arena metagame like there is with Elf or Grey's, they're additions to the main arena that may or may not actually come alive and affect the match.

No, you need to shut up. But since you're going to open your noisehole anyway...

Nearly one and a half years old. Grew to despise the complexity of it before it was even half-finished.

Every Pokemon and attack is Normal-type... Yeah, that's TOTALLY on par with your half-battle half-RPG forum post abomination. By the way, that last sentence was sarcasm.

A battle from nearly 3 years ago that Darkly had all say over beyond me suggesting "Why don't we fight on the revealed Brawl battlefields?"?

My point was that you've come up with crazy arenas in the past, and by your own admission you never finished one due to it's complexity. So thank you for proving my point, you narcissistic ninny.

And you complain about the 'examples' I cite in debates...

I complain when you raise a stink, then try and say the examples provided of your arenas being complciated are somehow irrelevant to the discussion. When you make the claim and I show you that you're full of shit, you keep trying to scramble out but dig yourself deeper.

I never said that the complicated arenas you made would be cited from within the last year. I cited ALL of your past crazy ass arenas that could be considered just as complicated (if not more so) than the Dragon Roost to make a point and drive it home to your THICK SKULL.

[chaos_redefined]

MM... I don't know about the first arena, but the black-white one is actually ok, and the brawl one was apparently DL's work. So, I'm gonna have to say that blade is right.

And, if you wanna disagree with the black-white thing... Think of it like chess. Rules-simple. Ramifications-complex.

[Mew Master]

Chaos, I read through the Major General one, and after the first set of rules for the arena it made my head start to hurt.

[Deadwood_Zen]

Major General

Major General! *salutes*






(hopes someone will get the HIMYM joke)

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Chaos, I read through the Major General one, and after the first set of rules for the arena it made my head start to hurt.

Yeh I second that, I actually reffed that match.

[chaos_redefined]

Chaos, I read through the Major General one, and after the first set of rules for the arena it made my head start to hurt.

OK... I will acknowledge that one. However, the "every move is normal" thing is fine.

I had a read-over of the planned arena blade gave. I'm somewhat changing my opinion. My main problem with these switchy arenas is that they switch every goddamn round. As a result, I would have no problem with the arena blade suggested. BUT. It is still a point against you, blade. It was still designed to switch between different arenas.

I still agree that it was a while back. SSBB wasn't out at that point. Also, it's nowhere near as confusing as, say, changing the effectiveness of types every round (looks at CEB) for a gym battle. Especially when combatants end up sticking to a couple of attacks, regardless of what was made more effective by the arena. Seriously, if you have a torterra out, and, say, fire is upped while water is weakened, I'm still gonna use ice attacks before I look at the fire ones.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Well the point is for people to keep thinking about the ever changing match and adjust themselves accordingly.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I think Chris 2.0 started the complex-arena's with his Monopoly-battle.

Oh the times.

[DarkestLight]

Obligatory black that can't do math joke.

YOU have such an arena, Darkly. Those elemental suits of armor that have different powers, status afflictions, and even moods? They fit the bill.

--Might wanna read my Arena again The Armors don't have powers. They might once in a while run up and hit you or cure you. Just depends on how the match is going, same as yours if you go too high or too low and people get frozen or confused. That's a strategic chance that can allow for victory. So, again, no I don't :O.