Osama bin Laden killed

[woz]

that's not how trials work, mate

[Roy Karrde]

that's not how trials work, mate

If evidence presented in one trial would be deemed legitimate, there is little argument it would not be allowed in another trial as there was already a precedent set in the previous trial.

[Dark Sage]

I don't need a citation to know that everyone in New York was happy that he was dead. I saw the jubilant crowds celebrating in Time's Square on Sunday after the news had been released. People who lived through 9/11 have been waiting for this for years.

As for everything else, see what Roy said. This is one of the few times I agree with him.

[DarkestLight]

I don't need a citation to know that everyone in New York was happy that he was dead. I saw the jubilant crowds celebrating at Ground Zero on Sunday after the news had been released. People who lived through 9/11 have been waiting for this for years.

As for everything else, see what Roy said. This is one of the few times I agree with him.

I'm from, and still am a New Yorker (Harlemworld, till I die ¬¬.) I have mixed feelings, but none of them are positively happy. I can point out over 100 NYC'ers that feel how I feel, that this is a caution set of relief within anxiousness. We DON'T know how to feel-'cause we never thought it would come like this. This is again, something new for Americans (least this generation.)

No we shouldn't have run out in the damn streets (IMO) like when Obama won the presidency and when Yanks win a World Series. Yes, the families of those that lost folks in 9/11 do feel some sort of rudimentary closure, even though they know killing one man will not equate to the deaths of thousands here and across the globe. I'm sure that even with this news, they're still not entirely happy, but its a damned step forward.

Now, let me make a statement to Roy.

Right now Roy, you bugged out with that statement. No 3000 does not equal 1. But for those families, that one grew to encapsulate all their rage, fear, hatred and confusion as to WHY someone would do this. If it was just those folks out in the streets, I probably would have been like "Meh-its the folks who have the most reason to care."

But no, it was Johnny McCornball and his College friends slapping each other's asses and dunking on trees and taking photos with Uncle Sam hats like "YEAH WE KILLED OSAMA." They aint do SHIT >_O! Those fucks are the ones that cause drama. Children seeing those folks outside of D.C. and Ground Zero are gonna be confused cause omg we're celebrating a dead bad guy? Pakistanies are gonna see that, and they're not gonna remember how they acted 9 years ago when the towers fell (and for the record, that was not all of Pakistan, that was Al-Qaeda infused cities that were caught cheering, not everyone in Pakistan thought it was the best thing since cable TV, since they got that in 2000). They're gonna be like "Whoa, they're really happy they killed that dude."

No ones taking the time to explain to children, or to themselves why they're celebrating. Everyone's just saying "WE GOT HIM." and not thinking, "well no I'm relieving some of the anxiety I felt for over 9 years." Yeah, Terror is still here. Osama did what he set out to do, and that was break the American Bubble of Invincibility... good job Osama.

So we did what? As Blade said, spend trillions to find his ass. And we did. And they found him. And he shot at us and Johnny McBadass shot him twice in his left eye so he could watch some hot shit coming to fill his face. In this case, fuck due process. He didn't do like Saddam, who crawled in a damn hole and didn't really resist us himself (Which allowed us to do due process). No. He came out like Rambo and tried to eradicate another infidel-only to get tagged up like markdowns in JCPenny. I'm not saying that it was handled inappropriately, but it was handled the way it needed to go down.

Evil gets what evil deserves, and there's no avoiding that. But Dark Sage, I would really appreciate if you take back that comment about all of NY liking Osama being dead :/ I for 1, am no celebrating his death. I'm at most acknowledging some noticeable shift in the scales of balance for us all. It just have a massive epicenter here-and that center is Ground Zero.

[Roy Karrde]

Now, let me make a statement to Roy.

Right now Roy, you bugged out with that statement. No 3000 does not equal 1. But for those families, that one grew to encapsulate all their rage, fear, hatred and confusion as to WHY someone would do this. If it was just those folks out in the streets, I probably would have been like "Meh-its the folks who have the most reason to care."

But no, it was Johnny McCornball and his College friends slapping each other's asses and dunking on trees and taking photos with Uncle Sam hats like "YEAH WE KILLED OSAMA." They aint do SHIT >_O! Those fucks are the ones that cause drama. Children seeing those folks outside of D.C. and Ground Zero are gonna be confused cause omg we're celebrating a dead bad guy? Pakistanies are gonna see that, and they're not gonna remember how they acted 9 years ago when the towers fell (and for the record, that was not all of Pakistan, that was Al-Qaeda infused cities that were caught cheering, not everyone in Pakistan thought it was the best thing since cable TV, since they got that in 2000). They're gonna be like "Whoa, they're really happy they killed that dude."

Here is the thing, that one, is in no way relatable to the 3,000 that died. That one was a mass murderer, a terrorist, a nut job, one who sought out to kill and harm people. Those 3,000 were innocent, they committed no crime against al Qaeda other than being alive. They were innocent civilians that al Qaeda choose to murder.

As such it is absolutely wrong to link one celebration to another, one celebration is to the end of a mass murderer who has haunted this country for far longer than one decade. The other is to celeberate the death of innocent people who died simply for going to work that morning.

Since we are using WW2 as a example here, it would be like saying Jews celebrating the death of Hitler, is the same as German soldiers celebrating the death of Jews. Those two celeberations are in no way comparable.

To put it simply to say the two are the same is to engage in False Moral Equivalency.

[Dark Sage]

Fine, I take it back. I shouldn't have said "everybody".

I keep forgetting that there are no absolutes in this world, except for the one that says that there are no absolutes.

[DarkestLight]

Here is the thing, that one, is in no way relatable to the 3,000 that died. That one was a mass murderer, a terrorist, a nut job, one who sought out to kill and harm people. Those 3,000 were innocent, they committed no crime against al Qaeda other than being alive. They were innocent civilians that al Qaeda choose to murder.

As such it is absolutely wrong to link one celebration to another, one celebration is to the end of a mass murderer who has haunted this country for far longer than one decade. The other is to celebrate the death of innocent people who died simply for going to work that morning.

Since we are using WW2 as a example here, it would be like saying Jews celebrating the death of Hitler, is the same as German soldiers celebrating the death of Jews. Those two celebrations are in no way comparable.

To put it simply to say the two are the same is to engage in False Moral Equivalency.

If I said earlier that they are the same, than I would be I the collective wrong. I don't believe I said that, but I'm going to explain in a hopefully better way what I mean about the witnessing and meaning of the celebrations and why the celebrations themsevles are similar whereas the reasons why they are celebrating can differ so much.

..It would seem that they are in no way comparable. At least, that would be the case, if there wasn't celebrations in the first place. The reasons the celebrations exist are as different as night and day, but the connective tethers? The One and the 3000...

That 1 made 3000 disappear, and then suddenly, this one is finally eradicated...Its like the Damn genocide of the Jedi by Vader Holy crap its wrong, but there is a balance that needed to be restored. We'll never understand that balance, but its there, and it was shifted back toward equilibrium, if only slightly. For that-there was celebration.

If you'd also take a second outlook...consider the 2001 celebrations in Pakistan. Of seeing a massive power in the world crippled by people that this massive country considered lowly. Made them (Al-Qaeda) feel pretty powerful. They felt balance shift in their favor due to in their anarchy. They shifted the scales of terror to now conclusively include America. Now we finally Tagged Osama. That terror scale is shifted back ever slightly for us.

Case being, we're never gonna get our invulnerability back as far as I can see. Balance is too much on their end...this was a boon but it only raised up a slight bit, May take the gen after the current one growing up now before we might even come close to that impervious mindset again, and raise that scale back to being even (if it ever was even). Therefore the celebrations still come, whenever those scales are moved. That's how they're similar. They celebrate because of the success of an event that the parties consider significant

And uhhh...

Most of the natural world hasn't even HEARD of False Moral Equivalency, and aren't going to think of that when they saw/see people cheering in the streets They didn't then, and they aren't going to start now.


Oh. Thank you for the removal of the absolution Dark Sage.

[Roy Karrde]

It would seem that they are in no way comparable. At least, that would be the case, if there wasn't celebrations in the first place. The reasons the celebrations exist are as differnt as night and day, but the connective tethers? The One and the 3000...

So you admit that the celebrations are not comparable.

If you'd also take a second outlook...consider the 2001 celebrations in Pakistan. Of seeing a massive power in the world crippled by people that this massive country considered lowly. Made them (Al-Qaeda) feel pretty powerful. The felt balance in their anarchy. Shifted the scales of terror to now include America. Now we finally Tagged Osama. That terror scale is shifted back ever slightly for us.

However that imbalance was created in the blood of 3,000 innocent people, while it was shifted back in the blood of one guilty person. They can celebrate America getting a bloody nose, but it is ignorant to ignore how that bloody nose occurred.

Case being, we're never gonna get our invulnerability back as far as I can see. Balance is too much on their end...this was a boon but it only raised up a slight bit, May take the gen after the current one growing up now before we might even come close to that impervious mindset again, and raise that scale back to being even (if it ever was even). Therefore the celebrations still come, whenever those scales are moved. That's how they're similar.

Again it is too simplistic, you need to understand WHY the celeberations are occuring, HOW they are being brought about. One is being brought about by the deaths of thousands of innocent people, the other isn't. Ignoring that, again is a act of False Moral Equivalency

Most of the natural world hasn't even HEARD of False Moral Equivalency, and aren't going to think of that when they saw/see people cheering in the streets They didn't then, and they aren't going to start now.

You do not need to hear of it to know that the celebration of 3,000 innocent people is not comparable to the celebration of 1 guilty person. Such a thing should be just common sense.